In the first part of the show, Jason Hartman shares his thoughts on the article “Driverless Cars to Fuel Suburban Sprawl” and plays Kevin Kelly Audio short: The Emergence of Singularity. In the interview segment, he welcomes Certified Public Speaker and a best-selling author Jennifer Kahnweiler Ph.D. Jennifer differentiates shyness from introversion and shares how to know if someone is an extrovert or an introvert. She also discusses how introverts can enhance your organization and the five themes of successful partnerships.
Announcer 0:00
This show is produced by the Hartman media company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit Hartman media.com.
Announcer 0:13
Welcome to the creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You’re about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world’s most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multi millionaire who’s actually been there and done it. He’s a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who’s owned properties in 11 states had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to your financial independence day. You really can do it on now. here’s your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution. For real estate investors,
Jason Hartman 1:03
Welcome listeners from around the world in 164 countries worldwide. This is your host, Jason Hartman, thank you so much for joining me today, as we dive in to a 10th episode show, yes. Any show any episode that ends in a zero is where we talk about something of general interests, something that will help us be more successful in life and just live a better, more fulfilling, more powerful life in every way. As Tony Robbins used to say, and I’m about to go off to his event. He would say live with passion, right? This will help us be more effective in our life. We Our guest today will be Jennifer Kahn Wheeler and she’ll be talking about the genius of opposites. How introverts and extroverts achieve extraordinary results together. You’re going to hear some stuff today that might not be what you expect. So get ready for that.
But before we dive into that, I just want to address a couple of things. Number one, Fernando put a great article into the chat for our venture Alliance mastermind group on voxer. And it was, he says, driverless, the title of the article in the Wall Street Journal article, driverless cars, to fuel suburban sprawl from the Wall Street Journal. And he says, Jason, I believe you can say, I told you so. Well, thanks for sending that over. I appreciate it. And yes, I think I’m gonna be saying I told you so. Because we may well be on the verge of seeing the rise of suburbia. You know, there’s this word, it’s called renascence. Right? It’s like, I’m sure it’s taken from the word Renaissance. And it means coming back into being life or vigor or innocent. So you say something is renascence at this time, of course, that trend has has gone on and on and off. And the pendulum is swinging back and forth throughout history of pretty much all things. But suburbia became really an American phenomenon after World War Two, with our huge romance with the automobile and all of the wealth that was in America because America really just massively won the industrial revolution in so many ways. Because the rest of the world was destroyed. After World War Two and America jumped in and through what was it the Marshall Plan, right? I hope I’m not getting that wrong. That would be really embarrassing. Yes, I think it was the Marshall Plan. But forgive me if I didn’t get that right. rebuilt a lot of the world rebuilt a lot of Europe and Japan and so forth. We saw that all take place. And, you know, you could argue that America was just being really generous or that that was just a good business plan, because all those other countries became our customer for a long time and Then, well, then what happened?
You know what I’m gonna say right? The pendulum shifted back in the other direction. And our insanely successful automobile industry was probably following what Napoleon, Napoleon Hill. Napoleon Bonaparte admonished us not to do when he said, the most dangerous moment comes with victory, because that’s when we become cocky and complacent and entitled. And that’s what the American auto industry did in the 70s. Right? They didn’t notice the change. and Japan came in and just took over and Detroit got a beating, as Detroit was getting fat and happy and over unionized and had a bunch of crooked governors and well, you don’t have a governor for city JSON. Yes, that’s a mayor. I understand that. But a lot of crooked government. Officials in you, you saw that model Cities program and giving the unions too much power and these fat cat auto industry people, they got their comeuppance, right. And and that really, they, they got in trouble and Japan ate their lunch for a long time. And Now interestingly, you see things. I don’t know, maybe they’re switching back.
I mean, it’s it’s hard not to argue that Tesla isn’t going to take a huge bite out of Lexus and Mercedes and BMW. I mean, they had the biggest product launch in world history recently, when they launched the model three, the model three car, and I put a deposit on one of those just for kicks. If nothing else, I figured, hey, I could sell my position. I have a name for that, by the way, I call it carpet Raj. Yeah, not arbitrage arbitrage. It’s not an investment. strategy, folks, but you know, it’s just funny money to fool around with. So about 400,000 people put deposits on those cars. It’s mind boggling. That is insane. The biggest product launch in all world history right there with good old Ilan Musk, the crony capitalist himself, but certainly a bright guy. So I try to be honest in my assessment of these people, I’m not going to believe that Ilan is a god like so many others. He’s a super bright businessman and a good crony capitalist. Note that I do not endorse crony capitalism, just so you know, in case you’re wondering, but yeah, so so that that’s an American car company. I mean, just note that Tesla is an American car manufacturer, right. So we will see where that all goes. But yeah, suburbia is nascent at this time. I think suburbia is about to have a, a new resurgence. And guess what, folks? You listeners are lucky because if you’re following our investment plan, you’ve already got a bunch of suburban properties, don’t you? Because most of our stuff is suburban. We don’t invest in the urban core because it’s either too blighted, and it’s just a crime ridden craphole. Or it’s too expensive if it’s become gentrified, it’s just way too expensive. So it really just doesn’t work for investors, or at least almost never would would the city that urban core type areas work, but the suburban areas, that’s where thousands of properties purchased by our clients exist.
So hey, you know if this prediction is true, and my prediction is accurate, and I have a feeling I might be right about this one. I’ve been saying it for a while. We shall see we shall see. Someone asked me recently about cap rates and I’ve gone over this before, but I just want to before we get to our guests, I just want to mention this real quickly. I’ve got a great video on my YouTube channel, and on the front page of the Jason hartman.com website right there on the homepage. There’s a fantastic video you should watch. And if you’ve already seen it, you should watch it again. Yes, repetition is the mother of skill, you should see it again. So this video is about how to analyze an investment property and how to read a Performa. And cap rates are the thing that is the metric by which commercial real estate people live and die. They use it all the time. It’s like their, their first number that they look at. Why is it that we don’t look at it as much in the residential investment side of the business?
Well, I’m not going to go into a long explanation on this but just quickly, let me tell you, it’s not is meaningful in the residential side of the world because, of course, it leaves some very important things out that are more applicable to the residential investment business than they are to the commercial investment business. And those things are leverage and appreciation. It leaves them out it does not consider them. And those two things are more prevalent in this world because the properties the the humble single family home is the best appreciating asset class of all of them. Now, in commercial property, you have the opportunity sometimes to add more value, but that’s not really the same thing as appreciation. So that’s the first thing to note they do not generally speaking, appreciate as well is our humble single family homes. Well, why is that? It’s because the single family homes can be sold to people who don’t buy things that make sense and that may be your buyer. Now, you hopefully are listening The show and you are listening to our advice and listening to our investment counselors and you are buying things that makes sense the day you buy them, because you follow commandment number five. What is commandment number five us? Thou shalt not gamble, Thou shalt not gamble. You must the property must make sense the day you buy it, or you do not buy it. Absolutely. So cap rate doesn’t really give us enough information. But then why would it be that all these sophisticated commercial real estate people love it so much? Well, I’ll tell you, because those deals are so much more complicated. And their income expense ratios can differ so widely compared to a typical single family investment home. That cap rate is a pretty good metric for them. And and here’s why. Say for example, they’re looking at an apartment complex. Or they’re looking at a self storage facility or an office building or a mobile home park or a retail property.
All of these properties have different customs and rules around which people buy them and lease them and invest in them and manage them. And so their cost structures are dramatically different. For example, if you owned a little shopping center or a little strip mall, for example, that say had three or five little tenants, maybe a dry cleaner, Subway sandwich shop and a Starbucks or something like that, right? And a couple little tenants in there, you would lease those properties to tenants on a usually on triple net leases, where the tenant pays for everything and the costs all pass through to the tenant. Now, I know a lot of you listening might be saying, well, Jason, I sure like that deal. Yeah, of course you do. But what you don’t know is that the cap rates generally suck on those deals. The returns are terrible. They’re not nearly as good as what we can achieve in the residential investment business. A lot of doctors like those deals because well, you know, no offense doctors, you’re great scientists, but generally speaking, no doctors and dentists, they’re notoriously poor business people. And this is just kind of the way it works, right? Some people have a good mind for money. And some people have a good mind for science and never the two shall meet, or rarely shall they meet. Now, some doctors are very successful in investing, but most of them, you know, they’ll just buy one of those little shopping centers or they’ll go in with three of their doctor buddies and buy one of those little centers. And when the tenants move in, all the tenant improvements. In other words, they build out of the inside of the property, the T eyes, the tenant improvements will be paid for by the tenant. Now contrast that To an office building, an office building is exactly the opposite.
On an office building, those leases are what’s called full service gross most of the time, not always, I don’t even know if I should say most of the time, but look on the office spaces I’ve leased over the years, they’ve all been the full service, gross type of lease. And so the cost structure dramatically different. The tenant improvements, the T is when I want to build out the inside of the office space I leased while the landlord is usually responsible for that, and they will provide an allowance as you’re negotiating beliefs. So they might say, well, we will give you an allowance of maybe $30 or $35 per square foot to build out the office space and make it the way I want it for my my office, my business, and that’s completely different than retail properties. So this is why cap rate is important in the commercial real estate. It makes it much easier to compare, should I put my money into an office property or a retail property, or a self storage or a mobile home park or an apartment complex, because they all have dramatically different customs around which they operate. In the residential world cap rate is a kind of a lousy metric. It’s just not that good it, it leaves out some very important factors like leverage and appreciation. It’s just not that great, there are better metrics.
And if you want to find out what those metrics are, in the residential investment side, just go to Jason hartman.com. And watch that little free video on the front page on the homepage of the website. It’s 27 minutes long. It’ll make you a fantastic investor. If there’s any one piece of content that will give you a great overview, and that you should review as an investor every six months or so it’s that actually I’ll tell you this. You could even skip An episode of my podcast, because that those are the fundamentals. And I really want to make sure you stay in touch with the fundamentals of investing. And that’s what’s on that video. So make sure you check that out. And that’ll be good thing, hey, I want to play a little quick video for you. And this is, it’s just a minute and a half. And pardon my lousy sound quality. It’s actually not that bad. But I’m just playing this video on my little iPod Touch here for you. I know this is very homegrown here, we could do this right and could do a lot better, of course, but it’s good enough, you know, and it’s just a little minute and a half video. And you know, I’m always saying it’s an amazing time to be alive. Well, that is so so true. Of course, it is an amazing time to be alive. As we are at the inflection point, I believe of so many radical improvements in technology. And this video is about the singularity and so on. Just check this out before we get to our guest today and we talk about the genius of opposites.
Excerpt from video 16:09
Kevin Kelley describes the emergence of language as a singularity. He says draw a line in the sand the humans pre language in the human world post language would be unimaginable to the humans on the other side of that line. And so, perhaps we are due for another kind of consciousness reset. So we have artificial intelligence, advancing exponentially biotechnology, mastering the information processes of biology, nanotechnology, you know, patterning atoms, the building blocks of the material world, three overlapping revolutions set to remake the world as we know it. I think that the next 10 to 20 years will be comparable to the next century or two as seen from the past. I think ultimately, we are changing society. We are co evolving with technology. rakers was the chief engineer at Google. Now. He wants to create a machine that makes 300 trillion calculations per second, and to share that with a billion people. So that’s a brain attached to the internet. This sounds like science fiction. But this is all coming so quickly. Are we a combination of a man and machine? Are we literally going in changing the genetic structure the future of our species? And you never realize the Singularity is happening until you’re on the other side? And then you’re like, wow, it’s a different world. The thing is, usually those things are generational things. Now it’s happening within one’s lifespan. So it’s kind of forget to bear witness do.
Jason Hartman 17:38
Well, folks, it is an amazing time to be alive. It’s a totally amazing time to be alive. And I hope you wake up every day grateful and appreciative and excited as we all anticipate all this incredible stuff that is happening. Yes, there are forces there. Very Dark Forces out there. big government, socialism, Al Qaeda, ISIS all very dark forces here right? Do you notice how I compared I just threw the government in with ISIS? Hmm I’m gonna leave that one alone because I’m not sure I disagree in terms of the destruction they can do but whatever. Some of this folks, I do say purely for entertainment value. That’s my disclaimer in either case, go to Hartman education COMM And check out the Great Courses we have there many of you who have purchased those, we thank you for that. And really check those out. There’s some there’s some really good content therefore yet Hartman education.com or new little education portal, and then of course at Jason hartman.com. For properties and blog resources articles, past episodes of podcast, make sure you’re subscribing to the podcast so you don’t miss any episodes. And be sure to check out our other podcasts as well by just going to whatever podcast platform you use iTunes, Stitcher, radio, whatever, and just type my name, Jason Hartman. And you will see all kinds of great content out there on a variety of topics that are so important to all of our lives. In either case, this is a 10th episode show. So let’s go to our guest, Jennifer and let’s talk about the genius of opposites.
It’s my pleasure to welcome Jennifer Kahnweiler to the show. She is the author of three great books, the introverted leader, building on your quiet strength and quiet influence the introverts guide to making a difference and author of her newest book, The genius of opposites, how introverts and extroverts achieve extraordinary results together. Jennifer, welcome. How are you?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 19:50
Oh, Jason, I’m great. Thank you so much.
Jason Hartman 19:52
Good. Now, I hope you’re not too shy to do this interview with
Jennifer Kahnweiler 19:56
actually you’ll be surprised to know that I’m actually don’t test out as an interview. But I call myself a champion of introverts because I’ve learned to appreciate introverts in my life and and in work, so no, I’m definitely not a shy retiring type. Jason, you know,
Jason Hartman 20:10
that actually kind of brings up an interesting point. And maybe you can start by addressing this one. Is shyness, the same thing as introversion? Or though I don’t those are the same. Absolutely no,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 20:21
you’re absolutely right. Your your doubt is correct. Their shyness has to do more with the social and psychological anxiety. It can be really debilitating for for people. But you know, introversion is and thankfully, we’re learning more and people are learning more about what this means. It’s really how you’re wired. Jason is just the way you are. There’s no problem associated with being introverted.
Jason Hartman 20:46
Yeah, yeah. Well, I would, I would agree, I would think so. I would hope so at least. Yeah, good. So let’s talk first about your first two books if we can and kind of make the and bring it all together with the idea of you know, the genius of opposites. And how these two types work together? Can you really sort of divide the world into two types only? Of course, there are more than two. But I mean, do we all sort of fall into either introvert or extrovert? Or is there another category we’re not thinking of?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 21:16
Well, we’re learning a lot about introverts and extroverts. And certainly, as you probably know, in many of our listeners, it’s been in the press a lot. It’s kind of a hot topic, you know, but it really goes back to the days of Carl Jung, the psychologist who came after Freud or was in that period of time, and, you know, He really said that there was a personality type that was introverted, and it’s really Jason about energy where you get your energy from introverts get their energies in their head, extroverts from outside themselves from other people and get stimulated that way. So is there an introvert or an extrovert temperament? I would say yes, I subscribe to the feeling to the belief that we are typically one way or another. However, it’s really like a spectrum. You know? Do you think about it most introverts and extroverts are sort of in the middle, if you think about it as a bell curve, most of them fall No, none of us, very few of us are very extreme introverts or extroverts. So you know, there might be situations that we’re very comfortable in, let’s say when we’re out with friends being very extroverted, but yet when we’re in a meeting with a tough client, we may shut down and really go into ourselves and be more of an introverted type person. So I always talk about what behaviors work for you and what don’t
Jason Hartman 22:30
Yeah, and I would say that probably everybody you would ask would consider me an extrovert, right? Boy, you know, a really cute girl walks by and I try to talk to her and suddenly become kind of introverted. Terrible way,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 22:46
you’re kind of cute too, but I think you shut down right? Oh,
Jason Hartman 22:49
I don’t know. It’s just we got all self conscious or something, you know?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 22:53
Well, certainly but one of the things that that is a good indicator as to whether or not you might be on you know, one side of the Other Jason has a lot to do with your recharge, you know, it’s like a battery, like batteries are reached, recharged and on how much? How much time? Do you need to recharge that battery? By being by yourself, you know, being by yourself. And if you if you say to me and if I asked you that question, you know, how important is that to you? And you say, I must have that, you know, after a day of being out and about and being with people and talking all day, if I don’t have that time to be on myself and take quiet time, I’m really going to get stressed out. Whereas an extrovert will say to you, yeah, that’s important. I need that, but I can’t have too much of that or I’m going to go crazy. So I don’t really need it. It’s not a must have. So oftentimes, I think that’s the real differentiator that I found in all my work in my research.
Jason Hartman 23:46
Yeah, okay. Sometimes I feel like that too. You know, I kind of spend my whole day talking to people and interacting and so forth. And I just really like being alone and not talking to anybody. How do you test yourself? How do you know where you are?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 24:02
Well, there’s actually tests that you can take you know, number of our listeners are probably been exposed to tests like the Myers Briggs which is the one that I love
Jason Hartman 24:11
that so I’m an E and TJ By the way,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 24:13
oh are you okay? So you and but we may not you may not be a strong e you know, an extrovert, real strong extrovert and there’s lots of available quizzes right now online. If you just Google you know, personality assessment or introvert assessment, you can find that I also have one on my website that you can take which really focuses more which is in my area of expertise, which is more on leadership and the workplace. So you can find out how much you know about what an introverted leader is what a quiet influencer is and we rotate the quizzes on there. So feel free to go to Jennifer Kahnweiler calm and and see see how how high your knowledge level is.
Jason Hartman 24:48
Okay. All right. Well, tell us about these these the introverted type because you know, I think it’s kind of like they don’t get really they don’t get equal time do they in our society the isn’t it? Is it a valid statement to say the extroverts get all the attention?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 25:03
It is the extrovert ideal, isn’t it? Most of our workplaces in our organizations are type a, you know, the the person who speaks quickly or speaks gets their word in there in the meeting is the one that everybody listens to. But in fact, the person who’s introverted and who’s thoughtful, who may not speak up as quickly is might have, oftentimes has more well thought out ideas. Jason so yeah, there’s a lot of prejudice against and bias I think that still exists against introverts, you know, particularly in the the pressure to be on teams to be together and making quick decisions. Those things can be can be a problem. You know, we live in particularly in the United States, you know, it’s such a fast talking kind of world and a lot of your folks who are investing in real estate know that, you know, there’s a lot of code, there’s a quick pace to things and introverts take their time. They, they prepare a couple of their qualities. You know, they’re calm, they’re thoughtful, they prepare They listen, they’re incredible listeners. But that’s not necessarily always valued by the rest of us.
Jason Hartman 26:08
I mean, I would have to think that if you look at sort of a type, you know, an engineer, for example, engineers are super valuable. And engineers are in just incredibly valuable people in society because they actually build things, you know, and there’s this, I gotta find that commercial. I don’t know if you ever saw this, Jennifer, or if any of our audience members did, but there’s a sort of funny commercial that really play it. It’s really quite accurate. I saw it a few years back, and it was this indian guy, and he is the inventor of the USB plug, right? I mean, what talk about something that revolutionized the world, right? Nobody thinks of it too often, but we use those every day pretty much right the USB and, and it shows you know, a bunch of sexy girls pulling his shirt off like he’s a rock star right in the rock star getting no attention
Jennifer Kahnweiler 27:00
I wonder what they were promoting in that commercial? I
Jason Hartman 27:02
remember even what the commercials about but
Jennifer Kahnweiler 27:04
I think a lot of introverts would be pleased to know.
Jason Hartman 27:06
Yeah, but you but you know, if you feel that mindset like the engineer tight mind, is it a thoughtful internal focus brain? Probably right?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 27:16
That’s right. That’s right. And that’s why I started writing these books and started doing more work in this area. Jason, because I was working in so many places where those brilliant people who we know have invented a lot of the things that we use, and we take for granted have made such incredible contributions. A lot of those more technical people, the folks that are or financial people are folks that really work a lot with data and information. They were oftentimes being overlooked and ignored and really misunderstood. And when you think about it, their workplace and their organizations, their managers, their teammates were really missing out on, I would guesstimate to say about 50% of the population really is introverted. So you think about how that trends plays into, you know, lost revenue lost productivity, lost creativity. So I was really on a mission to start exposing the whole idea of how important it is to pay attention to introverts into value their strengths, and that they don’t need to become extroverts. That’s the real key theme that I discovered in Jason in all in really talking with so many introverted leaders, you know, people like Conan, who’s a former head of Campbell’s Soup company, and I
Jason Hartman 28:27
had Doug on the show,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 28:28
oh, gee, you know, good to know, Doug, you know, he’s a wonderful interview. And, you know, Doug is calm, and he’s measured in his approach. And, you know, you think about how one of the techniques that he used as an example of a wonderful introverted leader, he may have mentioned this on the program where he wrote those into he writes individual notes to people recognizing them, right. And he’s, he’s known for that, that type of a practice. That’s not something an extrovert necessarily would take the time to do. So introverts are so powerful, but I wanted to get the message out that they need to do it in their own way. And not become extroverts in order to be successful.
Jason Hartman 29:03
Yeah, yeah, I think and I think a lot of them have kind of tried to become extroverts, maybe they get hurt or been told, hey, if you want to get ahead in your career, you got to be more outgoing, right or something like that. And so how can they build upon their strength? And then let’s put it together and talk about how the two can work together more effectively? Sure,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 29:24
sure. Well, I think identified a number of strengths. I mentioned a couple of them already, like preparation and listening and taking quiet time. And writing another strategy that introverts use very effectively and having focused conversations one on one conversation, so taking notes and really leveraging those strengths. So for instance, you’re trying to get an idea approved by a group you’re working with and you know, instead of you know, shouting it from the rooftops the effective introverts, I know have have quiet conversations with the people who are the decision makers, we might call them the state Calder’s you know who have some impact. And they use that strength to really hash out the issues to, to go to work, work through conflicts to give each other feedback. And that would be an example of how they use a strength to really get their goals met. So once they become aware and own the strengths that they have, you know, there’s no stopping introverts and being in being successful. That also said all of us introverts and extroverts need to flex. So there are times when you know, you talk about making a speech and being out there. There’s many introverted leaders, people, I think about the author, Adam Grant that I know who wrote give and take, and he talked about what he does to get ready for a speech, you know, he uses his skill of preparation, but he also practices all the time and gets himself over that over that hump. So you still have to be out there and engaged and networking and doing the more extrovert kinds of things but you can again, use your strengths in preparation to really be excellent at those things. In fact, the people who network work I know who are introverts, they take the time to consider who is that I want to meet at this at this get together? You know, what’s my purpose? They vary, they use that thoughtfulness that I mentioned earlier.
Jason Hartman 31:10
No Good, good points. Okay. What else? Do you want us to know about this the quiet genius or I mean, you know, on the first two books, what’s the difference between those two?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 31:19
Well, that’s a good question. The first book was called the introverted leader. And that came out in 2009. And that was really focused on people who are emerging leaders want to really ramp up their management and leadership skill. So there’s a lot of management stuff in there. I shouldn’t say stuff. I should be more erudite than that. It’s real content. There’s a model, it’s all just stuff. It’s all just stuff rather than all that leadership. jibberish, right? So it’s really you know, taking a model that I developed called the four Ps, which helps leaders and managers ramp up their skills. So they learn how to have a conversation with employees and you know, and how to network and applies that model to all of them and it’s very user friendly it’s very practical particularly for people who want to step more into leadership roles or increase their their impact fulness if they’re already in a leadership role and then the second book quiet influence really emerged from a lot of people who said, Well, I don’t really need so much help and leading I need to make a difference with people across my organization with my clients with my vendors. You know, I people I don’t have authority over Jason but I still need to influence so I created the the quiet influence process to help them again step into their own power, their own introverted power and doing it it’s gotten a lot of really good response. Both books are very pleased to see how have hit a nerve and I guess I listened to the people who were my readers, can you can you tell
Jason Hartman 32:49
us some more give us any more tips about stepping into the introverts stepping into their greatness? What What else can they do?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 32:56
What else can they do? Well, specifically They can be they can listen, you know, listening is their, their sweet spot. And so when they listen to really use the skill of paraphrasing, and to use that as a tool for them to buy time, this can be very helpful for an introvert who doesn’t isn’t necessarily as quick in responding to a question or two, you know, in a social reception kind of networking gig, they can use that paraphrasing skill to say back to that person in their own words what they’re hearing, and it gets the other person to talk more and to expound. And so that’s an example of something that they can do, where they can take a tool that they’re excellent, excellent at and use it to really give themselves the time that they need. That would be one one example I think, that I could share. Another one is social media. You know, a lot of people look at social media as it’s like fire, it can burn your house down or it couldn’t really warm you. And so what social media is really not a it’s not an option anymore. We all have to somehow be engaged. But what I found with successful quiet influencers is that they’re very thoughtful and how they, how they approach it. So for instance, they decide, well, what’s my goal here? Is it to, you know, connect with other people in my industry. So they decide, well, here’s the platform I’m going to use, I’m going to get involved in LinkedIn, or I’m going to do Facebook, but I’m going to get involved in a group and I’m going to contribute, and I’m going to follow, you know, leaders like Jason and engage with him online. So they have a reason why they’re on there. So they’re not like the extroverts A lot of times, you know, we’re are checking and they’re kind of random, and there’s no real strategy. But I think again, using the purple purposeful approach to looking at social media as how it can build your business, is really something that introverts can do beautifully.
Jason Hartman 34:47
Would it be fair to say that introverts are less reckless and extroverts are more reckless?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 34:54
I guess you could put it that way. What you say recklessness
Jason Hartman 34:56
be a? Yeah, would that be a
Jennifer Kahnweiler 34:59
risk taking How do you How are you looking at recklessness?
Jason Hartman 35:02
I don’t know. You know, you’re talking about like the preparation, the thoughtfulness that introverts go through, and it just kind of made me want to make that comparison now Yeah, I’m not sure. I get I guess I may be one of the more reckless ones probably then.
Jennifer Kahnweiler 35:16
Yeah. But I think what the extroverts learn from the introverts who aren’t perhaps that you know, as wreck when you say reckless, it’s all about risk, right. And I know many introverts, in fact, most of the successful introverted leaders I know do take risks, but they don’t do it in the same way maybe that extroverts do, they do it in a way that’s, you know, more thoughtful, they’re still they’re still pushing themselves. I found them doing that a lot like stepping out of their comfort zone, and you know, stretching themselves, but maybe not doing it half cocked, like some of the extroverts do, right. And they they admire extra most introverts will tell you some of my best friends are extroverts. I love their energy and they, they push me to try new things.
Jason Hartman 35:58
Okay, yeah, good, good stuff. So, how does this break down? Or, you know, or differ if it does at all, Jennifer between the genders?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 36:07
Well, the statistics are very fuzzy on all of this, Jason, to be honest, I mean, you can look at different research studies and I don’t know that there are any more women than there are men in in terms of introverts extroverts, because the studies are really based on people that have taken a Myers Briggs and they’re really a very small proportion of those. But I will tell you, I’ve studied women who are introverted for a number of several years now, and I’m really drawn to this area of being a woman myself, but also hearing from a lot of my readers in my end, people who I speak in audiences to who who talk about the discrimination I don’t want to use that’s a strong word, but the frustration they feel in being women in male dominated organizations, because you think about it. It is hard to be heard sometimes for women who are trying to carve their path and and connect with other men and so if they are introverted, there’s a There’s the pressure to be, you know, sort of happy and on on out there and engaged, you know, the pressure that that a lot of women feel to be sort of the nice smiling, happy person, while introverts are in their head don’t necessarily show that male or female, but women feel some pressure to sort of be more social than they are. And I think after a while their confidence suffers from that. So it is it can be a challenge for women. So it’s a matter of a lot of times just really connecting with other women in their industry in their companies, and really getting the support that they need. I was just did a, an international engineering conference for women, women leaders, and it was so encouraging just to see them really bond together and share ideas and hear from more senior women who have paved the way to get some mentoring from them about how they did it. And you could just see the women’s to confidence just rise in that kind of atmosphere. So I think that women who are introverted, you know, Certainly Can, can deal with it and work with it. But they do have some special challenges, I would say.
Jason Hartman 38:06
Interesting. Just on balance, though, women have a lot of advantages too. So, you know, it’s,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 38:12
yeah, well, you want to share what you think those are.
Jason Hartman 38:14
You know, I was amazed when I recently just a couple of months ago, I finished the book The Myth of male power by Dr. Warren Farrell, who was a big speaker for the feminist movement when it when it began in the late 60s, early 70s. And he has really outlined some things pretty well. I can’t remember all of them, but it’s amazing. I mean, you know, each gender has their advantages and drawbacks, but I wanted to ask you about putting things together How can these two work together?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 38:44
Oh, okay. So the opposites I talked about the genius of Aqua opposites and latest book, right? That’s and really what I heard from my readers what they were saying, you know, so how So okay, so we know we’re an introvert or an extrovert. They can I really, I’m attracted to them. I think they’re great. They bring so many qualities but they drive me crazy. Especially the things that we’re attracted to, you know, opposites do attract, everybody knows that, but they can also really go off the rails quickly. And what I found was the thing that kept these partnerships or keep these opposites from from going from imploding from staying on the course is they focus Jason on results, they focus on outcomes. So you know, in history, we’ve had so many successful opposites, you know, even going back to like, think about the Wright brothers, you know, they were known to fight all the time. They were totally opposite in temperament. You know, Lennon and McCarthy, Van Gogh and Theo his brother, Taft and Roosevelt, Siskel and Ebert. I’m realized I’m mentioning all men here, you know, the film critics. They were, they kept their eye on the ball. It’s very interesting to read about them until it’s see videos of them and you know, off camera just ready to kill each other, but they both respected each other’s talents and that was key to so You know, really working at these relationships so that they could thrive. So there’s a lot of exciting things that come that are coming out as we learn more and more, you know, and in today’s world, Sheryl Sandberg and Mark Zuckerberg are very close, and they’re very opposite Mark Zuckerberg being more of the, the introvert at Facebook and Sheryl Sandberg being more than extrovert, and, you know, she helps coach him and he helps her on strategy. And, you know, they make a wonderful pair in terms of leading Facebook into into real success. So, you know, it’s very exciting to look at all that.
Jason Hartman 40:32
Yeah, I guess maybe that has to come from two perspectives. When I asked that question. One. perspective is, of course, each of the parties the introvert and extrovert, knowing how to work with their opposite. But the other part of it would be say that you are in a position of leadership, whatever you are introvert or extrovert, but you’ve got these people under you who are different, who you need to help facilitate their relationship. So, you know, maybe that’s another angle you want to share any any thoughts on that side of it?
Jennifer Kahnweiler 41:05
Yeah, thank you for bringing that up. I think that, you know, I came up with these five themes of the successful partnerships. But leaders and managers can certainly play a role in encouraging the dialogue between the two. And a lot of is about, you know, taking the elephant out of the room, so to speak. Jason right. And talking about when there are differences. I have one of the themes that I came up with is that that was shared to me by a lot of the people I interviewed was, it’s called bring on the battles, because oftentimes, when partnerships are not sharing what’s really going on with them, where their frustrations are, you know, where they’re out of sync, that’s when you start to have some real problems and leaders and managers can encourage that. I’m not saying have an all out war, but, you know, to help them manage crises together to really sometimes you have to even bring in a third party, you know, to break through an impasse but, uh, If I have a leader or a manager is is aware of these personality differences, they can be on the lookout for when implosions are going to occur. There was one manager who actually put two opposites together because he knew that they would learn from each other. And he sat back and he said, I knew there were going to be some fireworks and there were, but you know, I was able to coach them through it. And now they and I interviewed the two of them, and they were just like, Best Buddies now. So sometimes it takes that kind of friction to really get to the other side. Have you noticed that?
Jason Hartman 42:30
Yeah, yeah, I think so. Definitely. Yeah, good stuff. give out your website. Again,
Jennifer Kahnweiler 42:34
it’s Jennifer Kahnweiler, je n is er KHNWE le are calm, and everybody can work launching a brand new one in a few days, but everybody can go on there. And, you know, sign up for our newsletter, take our quizzes, lots of free articles, and I’m also on Twitter at Gen Con Wyler, je Nn. And you guys will probably have that all on your site, je n Kahnweiler So I would love to stay in touch with your community and so appreciate the work you’ve been doing. Jason,
Jason Hartman 43:06
any closing thoughts on this? Just, you know, anything we didn’t cover? Maybe a question I didn’t ask you.
Jennifer Kahnweiler 43:12
I think you pretty much covered it. I I just would like to say that we all should appreciate each other’s differences. And I think accepting the alien is sometimes the best way we can go.
Jason Hartman 43:24
Yeah, excellent advice. Jennifer Kahnweiler, thank you so much for joining us.
Jennifer Kahnweiler 43:28
My pleasure. Thank you.
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