Jason Hartman interviews chairman and founder of Equity Group Investments Inc, Sam Zell. They discuss market valuations, real estate, and post-COVID economy.
Jason Hartman 00:54
Welcome to Episode 1456 1456. Thank you for joining us today, as we are going to talk a little bit in the new way, the technological way, the new COVID-19 methodology. We’re going to talk with Sam Zell virtually, but this is like double virtual. I’ll explain in a moment. But first, I’ve been meaning to share with you a quote, a quote that a friend of mine said, and I thought it was pretty good. My friend Pat, I was on a mastermind meeting, a virtual mastermind meeting, as I have been in all day today, and I have all day tomorrow. You know, I got to tell you, these are pretty good. You don’t have to do all these in person meetings. Sometimes. These are pretty good. I’m impressed. Considering that I’m spending $35,000 a year to be a member of these two masterminds. It’s pretty good for virtual. Okay, so here is the quote, in this quote, I’ll just tee it up for you a little bit. It implies Is that in the world of real estate investing in the world of life, career, fitness, education, romance, anything? In other words, it applies to everything, everything everything, right? We gotta get moving. What I used to always say and I remember many years ago when I was in traditional real estate and I was a young kid and I was working at REMAX where I became I must say, a little pat on the back. Number 59 in the entire world for REMAX at age 24 that wasn’t too bad for a kid who moved to that area to Irvine and why didn’t Why didn’t move to Irvine then I guess. Yeah, but moved to Orange County and didn’t know anybody except my own mother didn’t know a single person did it totally from scratch. In doing that, I you know, throughout my career, like many of us, I would have slumps. I would would go into a sales slump. And now, many of us find ourselves in a slump. And this one was not caused by our own doing. These were external forces and these external forces that shut down huge parts of the economy. I have put us into a slump. But one of the things I remember that would get me out of the slump was to simply talk to people. Yep, talk to people. And more specifically, I mean, take action prospect, get on the phone call potential customers call potential clients in the old days go out door knocking Yes, knock on doors and see if people want to sell their home right then traditional real estate a, that’s what we did. In the good old days. We did have cars back then and telephones and stuff, but you know, But yeah, door knocking was a very good way to get business. And what I learned is that that was the ultimate way to get out of the slump. And so I developed my favorite quote, and my quote was action eliminates doubt, action eliminates doubt. And if you are having doubts right now, which you probably are, I think we all are, we’re all going through a period of uncertainty of doubts of concern. If you are going through a time like that, then the best cure for it is to take action, because action eliminates doubt. So my friend Pat was opening up one of our mastermind calls the other day for one of the two mastermind groups I’m in now besides my own, the venture Alliance mastermind, but two other groups. And he said he said this and it was interesting. He said, you notice that when you are in your car and you’re in one place and you want to go to another place, and you look it up on the map, usually on your phone, you don’t even use the GPS built into your car most the time you just do it on your phone. I think that’s what I do. I don’t even know why, why pay the $3,000 extra for the GPS built in the car, I never even use the thing. And, you know, what you notice is you you pick the location you want to go to, and then you push, you know, get directions, and it maps it out for you. But the GPS doesn’t work until when until you start moving. You know, it can’t tell you which way to go without knowing where you are. And the only Well, it knows where you are, but it doesn’t know which way which direction is your momentum, right. So it can’t really give you any information. That’s very useful until you start moving. The GPS really only works when you’re moving, right. And you’ve definitely noticed this when maybe you’re using your GPS, when you’re walking really doesn’t work very well at all, because walking is only about four miles an hour. And you got to really start moving to have the GPS kind of work for you. And maybe you realize the GPS says, Oh, now I know where he’s going. Now it’s actually in the other direction. So you gotta you got to turn around on that sidewalk or make a U turn on that road, because the GPS only works when you’re moving. So you got to get moving. You got to do some thing, take action, because action eliminates doubt. Now, in the typical sense, you probably know what I mean. You know, take some action, learn some things. Reach out to some people. If you’re thinking about real estate investing, of course. Talk to your investment counselor at our company. Listen to some more people. podcasts, reach out, have them connect you with some local market specialists, some lenders to talk about financing take action, because what you’ll find is that if you’ve been kind of waiting on the sidelines and you’re thinking, Oh my gosh, you know, I’m paralyzed by everything that’s going on in the world. Well, you’re gonna find that there is a large segment of the world that is not paralyzed, and they are taking action and they are moving and life is going on. Life is happening. Now, I want to do before we get to Sam Zell, okay, the billionaire, multi billionaire real estate investor, Sam Zell, I want to take this a step further. And say it you know, I’m sure many of you have noticed this too. And I remember at times in my life, when I have been depressed or really just not doing well, okay, really in a in a rough patch. Okay. The best kind of action you can take some time. is not necessarily action for yourself, but it’s action for someone or some thing else. And I remember one time in my life A long time ago, I used to teach Junior Achievement as a volunteer, I would go into a class one day a week, and I would teach, I would teach the kids about personal finance and economics, I would go into the economics class and, you know, the teacher would take the, the period off and sit at the desk, and, you know, correct papers or whatever, and I would be doing the class, right. And, and that was fun. But they had this special program, a Junior Achievement that you had to apply for. And it was really kind of a highlight of my Junior Achievement volunteering, where you could actually go in and teach at juvenile hall. And I did that and that was really cool. That was just like extra fulfilling. I remember right before that time when I was scheduled to go in and that was like Like every day you did it for I think, I think I did it for two weeks straight, like every day. You know, during that time, I remember right before that started that program, I was feeling pretty down, you know, and it picked me up a lot. And one of the things that is certainly true about human nature is that it is impossible. I mean, I don’t know, check me on this, do you think I’m wrong? But I think it’s, I think this is true. It’s impossible to be depressed when you are focusing outside of yourself. And, and conversely, if you are focused, if you are depressed or you are down about something, you are always focused internally, okay, now, even if there was an external event, like if you’re worried about the virus, right, and that’s an external event, obviously, unless it’s affected you directly right which probably Hasn’t, most of the time, just the odds are it hasn’t affected you directly, right? In terms of your own health, if you’re worried about what’s happening to the world, but it’s mostly how it’s gonna affect your own life, you’re focused inward, and it’s impossible to be depressed. If you’re focusing outside of yourself. If you are, I would argue that you’re always focused internally. So that’s the focus. So in other words, do something for someone or something else. And I’ll give you an example. Yesterday, I was walking the dog, and I discovered a family of birds. And they were crossing the street, fairly busy street there were, I think there were eight little chicks and two parent birds. And they were totally going to get wiped this whole family was going to get wiped out by by cars. I mean, it was terrible. So I started blocking the traffic and stopping the cars just you know, getting in the middle of the road. What happened is the little babies the little Chiclets, they couldn’t get up the curb in the middle of the street up, you know, to get over the island to get to the other side. Every time I go over, you know, I was gonna just pick them up and move them and take them across the street. I couldn’t get near him. The parents were no way. They weren’t having it. So I called the police. And the police came out and didn’t stay for very long. And they said Animal Control would not come they would not help because these birds are plentiful in this area. Great. So, so they’re plentiful. So Animal Control doesn’t care. Oh, well. So anyway, the policeman was there, he stopped the traffic. He You know, he had the lights flashing on his car and was directing traffic around this. And then you know, he left. I went back outside a little later, and no sign of the birds anywhere. It was dark by them. And then this morning, I went out about 6:30am and there Were the birds again. And they were again in the street trying to cross the street. I started stopping traffic again this morning spent like another hour on that. And I saw one of the Chiclets get hit by a car, sadly right in front of me. But wouldn’t you know it as I was stopping traffic? One guy, actually this wonderful man pulled over. And he got out of the car. And he didn’t say much of anything at all. He just started going over to the birds. And I said, Hey, you know, can you help? And he says, I’m a bird handler. What do you know what what would be the luck of that? And he knew how to get near those birds without the parents attacking. And he picked up the chicks and move them off to the side. And there was one that fell into the storm drain probably last night because some of them huddled in there. And he got a fishing pole and his baseball cap out and rescued the one little chiclet and put it over with with family. So that was really one really wonderful, but that whole experience of saving the birds, you know, I was just totally focused on that last night. And this first thing this morning after waking up. And you know, I just forgot about every other care in the world, because I was just totally focused on this thing. And as people were pulling over as I was stopping traffic this morning, and last night, you know, some were getting out of their cars, you know, they were like focused on it. And here we were in the middle of this crisis that we’re all going through. And you see all these spots where people are like, focused on these community projects and sort of oriented on things together. And there’s a common goal. It’s just a great feeling. So anyway, enough of that. That’s interesting story. But hey, without further ado, let’s hear what Sam Zell has to say. Now, this is double virtual. What do I mean by that? I’m gonna play for you an audio track and this is from Bloomberg markets and finance. And it’s good interview, I suggest you check it out. I’ll put a link in the show notes. And let me just play a couple of parts of this. It’s a fairly long interview, Sam Zell says some stuff that makes a lot of sense. And then he says something that just doesn’t make any sense at all. So let’s go through it. Here we go.
Sam Zell 14:16
Sam Zell, Warren Buffett isn’t buying anything yet. Are you?
Jason Hartman 14:22
Speaking of the stock market, of course.
Sam Zell 14:25
Now, I’m just watching what’s going on. And not much is going on? What are you seeing? I don’t know the answer. yet. Eric. I just All I know is that despite the fact that we’ve been in lockdown for six or seven weeks, there’s very little activity, very little transactional activity, very little opportunity to do anything. I think everybody is Zen kind of a, you know, deer in the headlights kind of stature at the moment. And now at least so far, just sitting here watching and we’re not seeing anything happen.
Jason Hartman 15:07
So Sam is talking about deal flow in the commercial real estate market. And he is a big office and multifamily investor. And you know, I’m sure he’s in other asset classes too. I don’t know that much about his portfolio, but I know really, office, at least was his biggest thing. I’m not sure of the allocation of his portfolio, but big in the office space environment. I’m sure he has retail, as well. Yeah, actually, I think he talks about retail. So yes, he does have that. And if you’re going to own office, you’re going to have some retail Of course, just naturally is a mixed use project. Really, the markets just kind of seized up in the commercial real estate market. So let’s go on.
Sam Zell 15:49
Think that is it. Is it because prices aren’t low enough yet? Oh, I think that
Sam Zell 15:56
rather than referring to as prices are low enough. I think that there’s been very little opportunity of price discovery. My guess is that those sellers that wanted to sell still remember the prices that were available seven or eight weeks ago, the buyers are looking at a very different world.
Jason Hartman 16:21
So, you know, I always talk about price discovery and what an important thing that is. And that’s, you know, one of the major functions of free market capitalism to create price discovery, price discovery, very important thing. Isn’t it interesting to hear Sam Zell a huge real estate mogul, multi billionaire. Talk about the market in such a short term timeframe. That’s absolutely fascinating. I’m not sure he really caught what he just said. But he talks about how the buyers and sellers are viewing the market. The way it was seven or eight weeks ago, that’s seven or eight weeks. Did you really catch the significance of that? who talks about the market in such a short term timeframe is that normally you’d say, last year or five years ago, or 10 years ago, especially when talking about real estate because it’s a much slower cycle. Oh, we are in a different world. He’s talking about seven or eight weeks ago, like it matters. Oh, gosh, perspective, folks perspective. It’s absolutely absolutely crazy.
Sam Zell 17:38
And expecting to see significant discounts and where we were at seven weeks ago. And when you got that biggest spread, nothing happens. And I think that’s an accurate description. What about you? What do you need to see before you feel motivated, inclined, even excited about putting capital to work? Well, I think we’re all Faced with an extraordinary level of uncertainty, uncertainty and how the reopening will go, uncertain as to when the reopening will happen. uncertain about how people will respond. How soon will anybody get on an airplane? How soon will anybody stay in a hotel? How soon will anybody go to a mall? The fact that these places may be open doesn’t necessarily mean that they’ll be doing business. And so I think with that level of uncertainty, rather than people taking action, I think everybody is sitting on the sidelines, waiting for more clarification. Sam, you’ve been through a few cycles, every cycle
Sam Zell 18:52
ends with a crisis of sorts, and then questions, uncertainty,
Sam Zell 18:59
how does this level of on Starting to compare with past cycles. Oh, I don’t think there’s any comparison, ah, in the past cycles have all been financial, you know whether it was the great recession or not, you know, oh, oh 708 no nine. The question was, you know, when do we, you know, get financial recovery. You go back into 7374 8190. They were all financial scenarios, overbuilding other challenges, but this is the challenge that we have no frame of reference for number one. Number two, the scale of it is, is just enormous. I mean, I don’t think we’ve ever, you know, even during the Great Recession of 20789. They were parts of the world that were doing fine, and other parts of the world network. We’re suffering. Certainly, you know, a number of the emerging markets came through that whole grid, very strong way, I think in this particular environment that we’re in right now. But the problem is universal. And we just don’t have any, we don’t have any frame of reference. We don’t have any history that we can go back to and say, Aha, well, this is the way it will be. And where, in effect, somebody can take a position one way or the other is which way it will be. People are taking that position. Amazingly, every day, there may not be enough price discovery for the kinds of investments you want to make. But there’s still plenty of liquidity in public markets, Sam, given what you just described, the world being in uncharted territory out there.
Jason Hartman 20:50
So stock markets, the stock market versus real estate deals, write lots of liquidity in the stock market, obviously. And remember my rules Right. I’ve always said this liquidity creates volatility. A lot of investors see liquidity as an advantage. I believe you should really view it as a disadvantage, because liquidity creates volatility. So, in commercial real estate, Sam Zell is talking about how there’s really just no deal flow. Everybody’s kind of sitting on the sidelines. And there’s just, you know, almost no transaction volume happening at all. Now in residential, that’s completely different. As you know, we’ve talked about residential definitely chugging along, but the spring buying season for traditional owner occupied homes that was hugely impacted by this because people were staying put, right they weren’t they weren’t looking at houses, but the industry is adapting quickly and the virtual showings and all the virtual stuff are are picking up and the tech is really getting better. By the way. You know, we’ve talked a lot about self management. And Zillow has, I think, done a great job, seemingly done a great job. You know, I haven’t really looked into this too deeply yet in expanding their tools for landlords. And so self management just keeps getting easier and easier and easier. And the level of friction with these virtual showings, keeps declining and declining and declining. And remember all these efficiencies, stay after the pandemic ends. All these efficiencies of online learning, all these efficiencies of telemedicine and tele veterinary medicine, you know, car shopping, and I’m getting emails, I’m on these car dealers email list, and I’m getting emails that say touchless delivery of your car, making it easier to shop online. Well, thank God because I tell you I’m sick of going to a dealership and sitting down and playing this dumb game. Every time I get a new car, you know, and and spending hours doing it, you know, when I, when I inquired about new cars in maybe January or December because I was kind of starting to look, you know, it’s like, okay, when can you come in? Well, I don’t really want to come in, okay, I know what I want. And I just want a good deal. And I don’t want to sit there for three hours while you go back and forth with your manager and play this stupid game. Well, now, guess what? That’s disappearing. And you know what else it’s more efficient for the car dealership to, okay, so the consumer wins and the car dealership wins. So remember, friction costs money. Okay? When you reduce friction, you save money for everybody. you increase the speed of money, the velocity of money, which is good, but also inflationary. We’ve talked about that before, but you also increase the size of the economy in General when you reduce friction. So, on one hand that, you know, that’s one of the very good things coming out of this crisis is efficiencies are increasing dramatically. Just Everywhere you look, it’s one of the wonderful side benefits. You know, every crisis has opportunities with it. And that’s definitely one of the opportunities here. Okay, let’s get back to same
Sam Zell 24:21
phrase for, you know, frame of reference, as you said, the public market valuations make sense to you.
Sam Zell 24:27
Well, I’m not sure that public Mark market valuations actually reflect the reality of what’s going on. I, you know, I think that the public markets have historically been a reflection on the expectations of the future. So we have a lot of people betting one way or the other in the future. They’re also betting generally from a diminished perspective. So the market went down. 25 or 30%, it’s come back, maybe half of that. But I just don’t think that anybody has any certainty and that’s why we’re seeing such incredible volatility. I mean, we’ve seen volatility that you’ve never seen before, we’ve seen 1000 points in the Dow in one day, you know, back, up, 500 down 500 you don’t have a new reference, frame of reference for that kind of volatility. And so as a result, you know, it’s like, it’s like a little bit like the game, you know, musical chairs, you know, everybody in the market is, knows that that, you know, the music is playing and while the music is playing, and they gotta walk around, but they also know that it’s gonna be one less chair when the music stops.
Jason Hartman 25:52
And in that music is playing because the government and the Fed are stimulating like crazy. And you know what this whole thing just like the last, like the Great Recession 1012 years ago, this whole thing just shows us over and over again, that people that take big risk, it just pays off. Because they’re going to get a bailout. I’m not saying it’s fair, I’m not saying it’s right. I’m just saying it is okay. The people that take the big risk and do the most, you know, flamboyant things and spend, spend, spend, and get big and go into debt and grow, grow, grow, even if it’s debt fueled growth. That even doesn’t make sense. They get rewarded. Again, not a not a it’s a moral hazard. Frankly, it is a moral hazard. But look at who’s getting the bailouts. Now. Everybody who’s over leveraged is getting the bailout and everybody who is more conservative, the reason you think they’re okay, is because you can’t hear the dogs that don’t bark. They could have In a much bigger business, they could have been a much bigger investor, if they would have taken more risks, taken more action done more growth, they’re smaller and not newsworthy, because they didn’t do that. And so the last decade or the last two or three decades, they didn’t have much growth. And so they’re just sitting on the sidelines, you know, being a smaller fish in the game, and you’re not hearing about them. Because it’s not newsworthy, there’s nothing much to talk about. But what you are hearing about is all the ones who feel their growth like crazy and did stuff that might even be considered somewhat reckless or at least rationally reckless. And yet, they’re getting all the bailouts. It’s certainly not fair, but it is the way it is.
Sam Zell 27:46
Therefore, their focus is all on, you know, how do I make sure I get one of those shares? I don’t think that’s so dissimilar from where I think people who are involved in the market are actually making the decisions. So even though the future is as unpredictable as it’s ever been before Sam, every investor wants to tilt one way or the other tilt optimistic, pessimistic till bullish to bearish, you have to have a view of sorts on how long the pandemic lasts. You don’t have to change this human behavior right on gorilla. You know, as I’m not sure I accept the premise that you’re putting out, okay. Matter of fact, I think that what we’re seeing right now, is the fact that nobody is doing anything. Nobody is taking a view. That’s why there are no transactions think, can’t confuse the stock market, which is slow back and forth of thousands or millions of people, betting to what’s going on in the real world and the real world. Transactions aren’t getting done in the real world transactions. They’re getting called off. In the real world, people are saying, you know, I don’t know. So therefore, I’m not going to do this. And so I think that that, you know, I don’t think everybody has to make the bet.
Jason Hartman 29:14
And I do think there’s even one deal going on out there in the old country where some big institutional investor is buying a shopping center right now, or buying an office building right now or even selling a shopping center or an office building. I bet there are many who think they need to sell their shopping centers and office buildings for sure. And and they’re high density apartment buildings that are multifamily. That’s high density because that stuff is gonna adjust. It’s just gonna suffer greatly. We’ve talked about it before, but it’s, it’s gonna get a lot worse. So yeah, those transactions just it’s just completely seized. I would have Managing, there’s almost zero transaction volume, like Sam is seeming to indicate here.
Sam Zell 30:05
A lot of people are not making bets. And that’s, of course, you know, contributing to the uncertainty that I described. Sam, do you think we’ll get back to what people would call normal life? And if not, what kinds of changes do you think we’ll see in habits in in consumer behavior, for example? Well, I think that in the near term, and I think I’d probably find the near term is the next two to four years. I think we’ll all see a lot of changes, I think. The way office spaces are laid out with people currently, you know, sitting on top of each other, I don’t think that’s like they to keep going. I think that we’re likely to see events such as events, whether it be baseball games, or football games, or incidents or whatever, I think we’re going to see, you know, more social distancing. And we’ve, you know, been accustomed to, I think, if we ended up with a period of time, you know, the where people gain confidence that we’ve gotten, quote unquote, big deal, then I think we’ll slowly start to recreate the life that we previously had, but I don’t see any any scenario where come Monday morning, everyone is going to go back to where they were before. You know, I think that that, you know, this has been an extraordinary shock to our culture and shock to our system in shock to the world and the world is, is trying to figure out what to do and I don’t think anybody really knows Yeah, Sam, how does an economy function? How does the Society for that matter function, you know, on the basis of what you just described, if we’re potentially living with social distancing for years, you know, and the open plan offices that we’ve gotten used to, are things of the past and baseball games, as you say, are a thing of the past and go into the bar is a thing of the past and, and, you know, convenience, easy, cheap access to everything from food to travel, you know, kind of goes out the window, at least under the scenario that you’ve painted.
Jason Hartman 32:35
There are a lot of inflationary pressures in that question he’s asking, just notice all those inflationary pressures. Right. And notice all the need for increased suburban homes and larger homes, people needing to move out of their tiny little high rise condos because they need to work at home. There One good thing for the office space market, but it’s mostly disasterous. Otherwise, because people won’t be working in offices very much anymore. But the ones that do, the tenants will require more office space to house fewer people. So that actually creates more demand for office space. Because I say, there will be new laws and rules or just company policies at the very minimum, or just employee desires, even, you know, the bottom of the food chain, right, that they don’t want to work in these open office plans where they’re crammed together like other people. Now there’s all kinds of surveillance technology that’s coming to that’s super scary. Big Brother’s watching you, you know, George Orwell 1984. Here we are. But, you know, you’re a lot of that says, okay, the prices of products are going to go up because it’s going to be more expensive for companies. If they’ve got to Have these larger offices to house less people? You know, if the old plan was you needed 250 square feet per employee, which I believe is a metric that’s used something like that, because remember, I’ve had several offices that I’ve designed and operated for, for my companies. And you know, now the new rule might be that you have to have 800 square feet per employee in the office space, wider hallways, larger elevators, more elevators, all kinds of crazy stuff, right? That’s all inflationary, that is expensive. That means they’re going to have to raise prices to be able to afford to stay in business. If the concerts can still happen, well, maybe they can only sell half the number of tickets now. So the ticket has to go up in price by double or the economics don’t work, inflationary inflationary inflationary. We’ll wrap this up in a moment here, but let me just let’s just get a little more of let’s get Sam’s response to that.
Sam Zell 34:58
How do things work? Does anybody pay for that? Well, first of all, I think you’re taking what I’ve said, and expanding it a little beyond what I said, I might have done that. That’s right. If you went, you know, from, from one end to the other, and all I’m saying is that everybody’s activities going forward will be affected by what we’ve all been through. So maybe if a restaurant has 150 seats, as approved by the health department, maybe it opens at 25%. And then it goes to 30. And then it goes to 40. And over a period of time, eventually, it’s back to 100. And the
Jason Hartman 35:46
same, do you realize how inflationary that is? If the rest I mean restaurants already a very thin margin business, right? So if a restaurant can only operate at 25 or 50% of capacity, I mean, the price of going out to lunch or dinner has to just skyrocket or you’re not going to have any supply. It’s supply demand shock, the supply just won’t be there if they can afford to be in business.
Sam Zell 36:15
And I think it’s likely that in sporting events, we’ll start out with less density. And then we previously had before, I think we’ll start out with less density in the bars than we had before. And then slowly as people’s confidence grows, so two, will we move more toward wherever we weren’t before?
Jason Hartman 36:43
All right. Let’s wrap it up with that because we are running out of time, but one of the things we didn’t get to in that piece is where Sam Zell I mean, he, you know, he made sense on everything, but this was just a completely dumb statement. It sounded like he was just kind of talking his book as it were. And the interviewer asked him about his apartment portfolio. And he says everybody’s paying rent. In other words, not everybody, he didn’t mean that I don’t mean to put words in his mouth. But he says the there has been virtually no change in rent payments. Versus last year at this time or any other month in general, the rent collections are about the same as normal. Now, there’s no month where you ever get 100% of your rents. There’s always someone who doesn’t pay, okay, especially when you have thousands of apartment units. But then he asked him about single family homes, he makes this completely dumb statement. And I don’t know if he’s even thought about it, or he was just talking his book or what, but he says something to the effect of well, you know, if I have an apartment portfolio, and I have one unit vacant, only a small percentage of my portfolio is vacant. You know, this. This is not what he said exactly, but it’s the same concept. And then he says, If I have a single family home and it goes vacant. It’s 100% vacant. Well, where did you get that stupid comparison? Sam, come on, man. You’re brilliant. You know better than that. Because you know, you would have, you’d have to compare the same number of units and single family homes to the same number of units in apartments. Now, granted, the apartments might be a little cheaper, so maybe you can get overall 25% more. So your vacancy ratio changes ever so slightly, but it’s just a silly comparison. It didn’t make any sense at all. So anyway, look, I wanted to talk to you today about some other things, but I went on a little bit long at the intro. So next week, we have got to get to some really good stuff where we talk about another one of my predictions coming true. Imagine that. Yes, another one is coming through. I told you there be a big Rental Assistance Program and now we are seeing those at the city level and At the state level, and at the federal level, it’s common folks. And this is more and more socialism, and more and more Keynesianism, but you know what, dear landlords, investors, who cares, you’re gonna benefit from it. So stick with us and listen for more and take advantage of all this craziness in the government, philosophy and practicality often diverge. And this again is one of those times, but it’s another time where you will benefit and you can be complaining all the way to the bank. You can complain all the way to the bank. So we’ll discuss more of that next week, because tomorrow is flashback Friday. Let’s wrap it up for today. If you need us, reach out, we’re here for you. We’re here to guide you, to assist you on your path to creating wealth through the most historically proven asset class in the entire world, income property, especially single Families suburban residential income property. Wow, this asset class is the shining star right now. It really is, as everything else is just, it’s being devastated. This is the shining star. The home is the center of the universe. And people need larger homes and roommates are splitting up and people are leaving high density environments. And you are going to continue to benefit from this trend. You ain’t seen nothing yet. Because there is a tsunami, a tidal wave coming at this asset class and most of you listening already own a lot of it. Some of you don’t reach out to us. Let’s help you get started. One 800 Hartman on the phone, or Jason Hartman calm and we will be here tomorrow with a flashback Friday episode. And then all next week we’ll dive into some of these other topics. Happy investing Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don’t miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show’s specific website and our general website Hartman. Mediacom for appropriate disclaimers and Terms of Service. Remember that guest opinions are their own. And if you require specific legal or tax advice, or advice and any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to iTunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you’re using and write a review for the show we would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.