CW 215: Precious Metals & Monetary Cycles with James Anderson Managing Director of GoldSilver.com

Jason Hartman talks with James Anderson, managing director of GoldSilver.com, about the historical cycles of gold and silver and other precious metals, against the monetary cycles. As the world’s fiat currencies continue to be debased through inflation, regulation, and irresponsible spending, precious metals investing is on the rise. But do you physically own your gold? Join Jason and James as they revisit the history of market cycles, talk about where the future of precious metals is heading, and discuss why people must take physical ownership of gold and silver.

Surely, many of you have seen and heard the ads, “We Buy Gold.” What do these gold buyers know that the public doesn’t? James explains why you should NOT sell your gold or gold jewelry now. After his first exposure to Austrian Economics at the Loyola University New Orleans with his favorite business professor, Dr. Walter Block, James Anderson received his BA in Finance in 2002. He spent two years traveling and working throughout Latin America where he witnessed first-hand the dramatic effects of the 2001-2002 Argentine currency collapse. In 2007, James became heavily involved with Dr. Ron Paul’s 2008 presidential run where he further awakened to our monetary history and the fractional reserve banking. James has since been very interested in free market economics, tangible assets, and sound money investing, seeing his work as a humanitarian effort to educate mankind on the importance of gaining financial independence and freedom.

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ANNOUNCER: Welcome to Creating Wealth with Jason Hartman! During this program Jason is going to tell you some really exciting things that you probably haven’t thought of before, and a new slant on investing: fresh new approaches to America’s best investment that will enable you to create more wealth and happiness than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self-made multimillionaire who not only talks the talk, but walks the walk. He’s been a successful investor for 20 years and currently owns properties in 11 states and 17 cities. This program will help you follow in Jason’s footsteps on the road to financial freedom. You really can do it! And now, here’s your host, Jason Hartman, with the complete solution for real estate investors.

JASON HARTMAN: Welcome to the Creating Wealth Show! This is your host Jason Hartman, and this is episode #215. I can hear it now, I can hear the voice; I know what you’re saying. Jason, where have you been? Yes. I am sorry, I apologize that we have not been publishing as rapidly as we used to in the past. I have been a busy person. I am talking to you today from Scottsdale, Arizona, and I have actually completed the first phase of my soft move out of the Socialist Republic of California. So, I’m very happy about that, with one major exception, and that is the temperature. Yes, it is hot. But it’s a dry heat. And everybody tells me that if you like Scottsdale, Arizona in June, you’re gonna love it the rest of the year when it’s not summertime. So, I’m looking forward to that. Although I’m sort of joking about that. I’ve spent a lot of time here. I used to have a second home here. And now I plan to have a primary home here!

So, I’ve been very busy with the move, and with a whole bunch of other projects that we’ve been working on for you, which I think you’ll see in future shows, and at our future events. We just completed our last members only conference call, and that was on the subject of due diligence. And with due diligence, that’s obviously a very, very important issue in your property selection criteria. So, I would highly recommend that you become a member. Register for a membership on www.jasonhartman.com, and it is a very low nominal cost to get access to the members section, with all kinds of resources. You get discounts on products and events, and just a whole bunch of benefits that go to members only, and other things that go to members first. So, take advantage of that by registering at www.jasonhartman.com.

Today on this show we’re going to talk about gold. We’re going to talk about gold and silver. And you know, you probably think sometimes, why does he talk about that as much as he does, being a guy who’s interesting in income properties and income property investment? And I’ll tell you why. Because it is such an important measuring stick. And as you know, I am far from being a gold bug or a precious metals bug in any sort of way. I only think that precious metals are better than currency, and by the way, let me make that distinction. Currency is not the same thing as money. Almost everybody on earth agrees that gold and silver are money. Everybody used to agree that dollars are money, or Euros are money, or whatever currency it is. That’s just currency. That’s not actual money.

So, I do like precious metals from that standpoint. I think they are a decent store of wealth. But of course, they have many defects, and we’ve talked about them on past shows. And what this is really leading up to, this whole discussion, is our very special report that we’re about to release. And I’m gonna quote a few things from that report for you, before we get to today’s guest, because I think you’ll just find this fascinating, fascinating, fascinating stuff.

But, let me first discuss some of the problems with the precious metals. Number one, they don’t produce income. Number two, they don’t have tax benefits. And in fact, they have extremely disadvantageous tax consequences. Because when you do have a capital gain on them, and you sell them, they’re taxed at the collectibles rate of 28%. So, not only can you not do a 1031 tax deferred exchange like you can with income property, not only do you get to write off all sorts of expenses related to them, and interest payments related to them, but you are taxed at an incredibly high rate. Not even the lower long term capital gains rate when it comes to precious metals. So again, they are not favorable in a lot of ways. You can’t finance them, you can’t rent them out, they don’t produce income, they are totally speculative, just like any stock that doesn’t produce dividends is also speculative. Like investing in vacant land, which doesn’t produce income, which is speculative.

Remember my definition for an investment. In order to qualify as an investment, it must have this characteristic. Very important characteristic. It must produce income. It must produce income. If it does not produce income, it is not an investment, it is a speculation. And I’m not saying that you can’t occasionally make money from speculation. But I’m just saying that it is not a sound overall strategy when investing; it is highly, highly risky.

And then, the other thing is, the trading cost of gold and silver. Most people never catch this one. But I really want you to catch this one. Because when you buy it, you pay a premium. And when you sell it, you pay a premium. Most people when they look at real estate, when they look at income property, they think well, it’s very illiquid, because it has high closing costs. So if I buy it, I need to hold it for a period of time in order to amortize those closing costs over a period of a few years. Well, that is true to some extent, certainly. But you know what? You have those high closing costs with precious metals, with gold and silver, too. Because by the time you pay the premium in the investment, to buy into it, and the other premium to sell it, to get out of the investment, and maybe some shipping insurance costs and storage costs in between, you’re usually up well over 10% in your premiums. In terms of your—I’m sorry. Not premiums, but closing costs. We should call that closing cost, or trading cost.

But here is what I want you to really consider. Our report, that is just about to come out, is talking about how gold—it’s really gold versus the world. And just check out a couple of things from this. If you took the total value of all gold and silver ever mined from this planet—if you took the entire known value of the gold and silver that is available, the aggregate value of that, it would be just over $9 trillion. Well, if you’re wondering if there’s a bubble in gold and silver, there are some really good things to consider when thinking about this. Because, if you look at the entire capitalization of the US stock market, that’s almost $14 trillion.

Now, think about that. That represents every publicly traded company on a US stock exchange. Consider that that includes the entire energy sector. Oil. All energy. All other forms of energy. The entire pharmaceutical sector—all the drug companies. The entire technology sector—all the computer and tech companies. All of the agricultural sector, in terms of the corporate agricultural sector, okay, so all of the corporate farms, all of the big ag companies. Every major media outlet that is publicly traded. All manufacturing companies that are publicly traded. And many other businesses. Wow. That’s almost $14 trillion. Yet the entire stock of all gold and silver on earth is just over $9 trillion.

What would you rather have? Would you rather have the entire energy sector of the United States, plus the entire pharmaceutical sector, all tech companies, all corporate farms, all major media outlets, all manufacturing, and all the other businesses traded on the stock exchange? Or would you rather have all the gold and silver in the world? What’s more useful? What has more utility? Think of the entire GDP of the United States. Would you rather have one year of every product and every service and every good sold in the US, or produced in the US—an entire year, say 2012, next year, or all the gold and silver in the world? I can tell you, I think the choice is pretty clear. I’d rather have the stuff, any day. Because you know me—I’m a really practical person. I am into stuff. We need stuff to live. We need resources to live.

And again, it may sound like I’m totally panning gold and silver, and I’m not! I think that it is a leading indicator of inflation, and it shows that we are going down the wrong road, in terms of our fiscal and monetary policy in this country. Certainly, it’s a great measuring stick for that. And I would much rather have a pile of gold and silver than a pile of papers with dead presidents’ pictures on them. In other words, dollars. Because that’s currency. Gold and silver is money. But then, do I make the decision, do I want gold and silver, or do I want stuff? Do I want pharmaceuticals? Do I want food? Do I want technology products? Do I want energy? And then the question becomes really easy. I’d much rather have the commodities. I’d much rather have the stuff.

And that’s really what we have to think of as income property investors. We invest in things that make sense the day we buy them, don’t we? We invest in assets that produce income. We invest in things, in stuff, in resources, that every single human being on earth needs. Guess what? They don’t need gold, and they don’t need silver as much as they need a roof over their head. They don’t need gold and silver as much as they need petroleum products, and this is what houses are made of, aren’t they? As much as they need copper wire, lumber, concrete, paint—all of things, all of these ingredients that go into a house. That’s what they need the most. And beyond that, of course, they need food and they need energy. But all of those other products, minus food, all of those other commodities are really in the ingredients of a house, pretty much. So, when you compare it and look at it that way, you’ve really gotta ask yourself, are we in a gold bubble? How much of this is speculation? How much of it is speculation with silver? I mean, recently we saw this huge pullback in silver, where it was hovering around the $50 mark, and now it’s back down to $34.

Now listen. It’s hard for me to say that silver and gold are a bad deal. I started buying gold at $420 an ounce, and I started buying silver at about $9.20 an ounce. So, I’ve done okay with my gold and silver. But my real question is, has the gold and silver appreciated, or is it just that the dollar has depreciated? And if the dollar has depreciated, what has happened to the value of my commodities? My packaged commodities, in the forms of my little houses that I own in so many diverse markets? Well, what has happened to the value of the debt, the long term fixed rate debt on those houses? Am I really making the money from the double inflation arbitrage that I’ve talked about on prior shows, or am I really making the money—or creating the wealth—from the ultimate inflation payoff? The inflation-induced debt destruction?

Well, I think I am. But I think it’s largely been hidden behind a curtain. It’s been hidden behind a veil, as we’ve seen this broader market, mostly represented by the completely misleading Case-Shiller Index. And when I say that, I’m not saying anything bad about Case-Shiller; for the 20 markets it covers, it’s fine. But the problem is, those 20 markets aren’t 400 markets. It needs to cover 400 markets if it wants to have a real, real understanding of what’s going on in the United States real estate market. And then of course it would need to cover the multi-dimensional aspect, or all the multi-dimensional aspects, of an income property investment like we do in the predictions report, available in www.jasonhartman.com. Shameless self-promotion, I know. But you really gotta read that, that 80 pages. Because it is quite insightful into the what is really happening with income property, not what you hear in the mainstream media. Or, Sarah Palin calls it the lamestream media. I always liked that one.

So, this gold report is coming out soon. You’ll hear more about it. It’s 12 pages long. It’s entitled The World is Not Enough. I’ll thank that James Bond movie. The World is Not Enough for Gold Bugs: Why Gold and Silver Are In A Value Bubble, and How to Avoid the Bubble Trap and Exploit It. Now, with all of that said, we’re gonna talk with our guest today, very knowledgeable, on gold and silver. And I think you’ll like what he has to say. Again, this is a great measuring stick. You’ve got to pay attention to it. But you’ve got to understand that it has huge limitations, and very big risk, because it does not produce income, and it can’t be “rented out” to somebody else. You can’t outsource debt on it. You can’t create income from it. It is speculative in nature. So, again, great measuring stick, better than currency, but not better than real investments in controlling resources. And that’s what our report is really about, that I think you’ll find very fascinating.

So with that, we will go to our guest in just less than 60 seconds. And be sure, by the way, to register for our upcoming Masters weekend. It’s not until October, but we want to see you there in Orange County, California. And some of you have asked, have we booked the venue location yet? We haven’t. We have been negotiating. The last two we had at the Hyatt Regency in Irvine. We have not booked that location. But don’t worry—there is more than enough time to book your hotel rooms. And just fly into John Wayne Airport, and reserve your tickets at our low, low prices at www.jasonhartman.com. Remember, those do go up in $50 increments as we get closer to the event. And they’ve already gone up a bit. So, get in early. The early bird gets the worm, so to say. And we will have a room block for you, and some great deals on rooms and so forth, at our venue when it is formally announced. And again, we’ve got several months. It’s not till October. So, just get your ticket, get registered, and we will look forward to seeing you in October, and we may have an event or two even before that, not sure yet.

But, we will be back with our guest in just a moment here, and thanks again so much for listening to the Creating Wealth Show! We will be publishing a little bit faster, I promise you. We’ve just been really, really busy with some other stuff. My soft move out of the Socialist Republic of California, launching my new company, Open Door Auctions, and just very busy on the investment side, as the market has been really, really hot. And so much money moving off the sidelines right now.

So, again, we’ll be back with our guest in just a moment.

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ANNOUNCER: Now you can get Jason’s Creating Wealth In Today’s Economy Home Study Course: all the knowledge and education revealed in a 9-hour day of the Creating Wealth boot camp, created in a home study course for you to dive into at your convenience. For more details, go to www.jasonhartman.com

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JASON HARTMAN: It’s my pleasure to welcome James Anderson to the show! He is very interested in Austrian economics. He was involved with Ron Paul’s presidential campaign, and he is with GoldSilver.com, and he was referred by Michael Maloney, I’m sure that’s a name you’re familiar with, and we’re going to talk a little bit about currencies, inflation, precious metals, and just the general outlook on some of this. I’m sure you’ll enjoy this show as we talk to James Anderson. Welcome James! How are you?

JAMES ANDERSON: Thanks, Jason. I’m very good. I’m glad to be here.

JASON HARTMAN: Good, good. Well, what is your outlook on the present state of our irresponsible government, and irresponsible Federal Reserve, and the powers that be?

JAMES ANDERSON: That’s a great questions. You know, day to day we get hammered with so many things, as far as, what is the new thing to worry about. You know, fundamentally, big picture, looking at it, just given the amount of promises that we’ve made, as far as a society, and how we’re going to pay that off, it all pretty much spells the dollar losing 50, 60, 70% of its value. Because basically, they’re gonna pay off what they promised. They’re not gonna default, right? That we don’t believe. But they will pay it back in dollars, but you know, the only question is, what are those dollars gonna buy us, right? So, you know, you might—you will get your Social Security check, but there’s no promise about what it’ll buy you. The pensions will pay you, but there’s no promise of what it’ll get you. You know? So, this is fundamentally where we’re headed. It’s just a question of how exactly we’re gonna get there, and what day, and what time, you know? But inevitably, that’s where we’re going. So, that’s how we feel about it. It’s more of a long term view.

JASON HARTMAN: I couldn’t agree more, James. For an irresponsible government that buys votes from people by promising them goodies, inflation is the surest way to fool and rob the public. Because most people, they just simply don’t get it. And it happens so slowly, it’s like putting a frog in the warm water and turning up the heat slowly until he boils to death, and that’s what’ll happen. Defaulting is too abrupt, it’s too politically unpopular. But hey, that Social Security check, it may say $800, or whatever the number is at the time, and the real value of it will become progressively worth less. So that’s where we’re going, because it’s the easiest road out for an irresponsible government. It’s their way of “balancing the books,” I guess. They can keep making their stupid promises and fooling people. But, eventually it really catches up, and it hurts. You know, I think we’re in a situation where we’re going to see tens of millions, if not 200, 250 million or more Americans really suffer a huge decline in lifestyle through inflation. The debasement of the dollar is a very, very real thing. But here’s what I want to ask you, James. Sometimes—I see how irresponsible our government is being, and certainly we’ll both agree with that. Most of our listeners will too. But is the US just sort of the best house in a really bad neighborhood? Because look at what the other countries are doing. Most countries around the world are a mess too. Europe is in huge crisis. Every currency on earth now is a fiat currency, as far as I know. Isn’t it just a big race to the bottom? Isn’t it just relative?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah. Yeah. That’s true. And the fact that all the western countries, they’re all in trouble, they all have big debt. And the thing about it is, as we print our dollars, every other country around the world has gotta keep printing their currencies so that things don’t get destabilized for trade. So, we have an article that we put out like every quarter. It’s kind of like a joke title. It’s kind of catchy. It’s called Race to Debase. But it’s more. It’s kind of sick, you know, the idea that the world is running around racing to debase their currencies. It’s very sad, because like you said, most people that it’s an insidious thing. Taxes. Or—inflation. It’s a tax that most people, it wouldn’t dawn on until it’s too late, right? And so, yeah. It’s true. It doesn’t matter what fiat currency you go to. They’re all going toward the bottom. Either printing—it doesn’t matter. Yin, Euro, Francs, I don’t care what you say. If it’s not gold or silver, it’s going to be losing value in the coming 5 or 10 years.

JASON HARTMAN: Well, the one thing that gives me some minor hope for optimism, in a somewhat perverse way, about America, and about the dollar, is that in light of everything that’s going on, which is just—I mean, it’s you couldn’t write fiction like this. It’s so irresponsible. It’s so disgusting, on every level, that it’s just mind-boggling, really. But, the US has a brand, number one. And people around the world still look to that brand as a light of freedom, to a large extent. I think it’s less so than before. But still better than a lot of places. And the other thing it has, is it has far and away the world’s most powerful military. I’m sure you’re familiar with him, but I interviewed John Perkins on the show. He’s the author of Confessions of an Economic Hit Man, and, A Game As Old As Empire, and a few other books. And won’t we just push other countries around to keep our supremacy as the world’s reserve currency? When things get really tough, won’t we just kind of force them to go our way? I don’t know how long we can keep doing that, and it sure is ugly, but—

JAMES ANDERSON: Well, that depends on who you believe is really running the show here. If you think that they have a loyalty to our United States, then perhaps that’s true. I used to think that way. I don’t think that way anymore. The United States is more or less a carcass that’s being used at this point. And it’ll get tossed to the side when it’s eventually done and used up, and just go third world status. That’s basically how—and it’s sad to say that. But, it’s happening slowly. You know, so people—so it doesn’t dawn on them. But it is occurring. Unless there’s a movement back towards rule of law, then I don’t expect to see a reversal of this until we go into a third world look. And that’s just the way it is. I do agree though; you’re right, that the military—that’s what backs the dollar, really. Is the fact that we have the military might, and that people are still using it to trade with oil. But eventually, if the interests of the central bankers of the world had their way, it probably won’t be a reserve currency in the long run.

JASON HARTMAN: And so, just to expand on your point there, because I want to make sure the listeners understand what you were saying. And I do agree with you, by the way. I’ve certainly read and heard about the 12 families that run the world, and studied the secret societies, and there’s the central banks, and the Rothschild’s, etcetera, etcetera. So, when you say the US depends who you believe is running things, and the US is just a carcass that’s being used for a greater goal, who is that? What do you mean by that? Just expand on that a little bit.

JAMES ANDERSON: Well, you know, in the end it’s—the idea that our politicians run the show—like, Barack Obama’s out there, actually in charge? He’s more or less a puppet. The real power is behind it. The people who are—the private shareholders of the Federal Reserve. Those are the real powers, when it comes down to it, in the United States. That power structure, and the apparatus that they use to manipulate, and to move things. Right? That’s really where it goes. And I don’t know what the names of these folks are. I don’t really care. I just see the actions, and I can see—rhetoric’s rhetoric, and you can tell that that doesn’t mean anything. But what are they doing? That’s what matters. Destabilizing the Middle East, that kind of stuff. Those people are not fighting out there for free democracy, or whatever the media will have you think. You look at pictures—these people have like 50-millimeter bullets on their chest. That’s not some bullet that they kept in their closet. They’re being—somebody’s giving them those bullets, right? So, it’s a bigger—something else is going on here, larger than what the media will tell you. And I’m not trying to say that I know specifically what’s happening. But it’s not—I know I’m not being told the truth, right? That I know.

JASON HARTMAN: I think that’s a pretty good bet, that none of us are being told the truth. So, yeah, I would agree with you there. So, hey, in terms of the devaluation of the dollar, and other currencies, if you want to address any of those, what do you think the future looks like in terms of inflation? I believe we are in for the most severe bout of inflation we’ve ever seen in the USA, and when you look back to the Jimmy Carter era in the 70s, and the beginning of the 80s, when Reagan was changing things—that’s just nothing, compared to what I think is coming. I think hyperinflation is a very real and significant possibility. What do you think? What do those numbers look like?

JAMES ANDERSON: You know, if you look at it like right now, for instance—you put some dollars in the bank, what type of interest rate are they gonna pay you? They’re gonna pay you like 1%, right? Or 0.5%. Where you know, if you look at the real facts of it, if you actually calculate how food, and your roof over your head costs, how much that’s been running, real inflation is probably like 8, 9, 10%. Now let’s—try doubling that up. That’s probably where we’re headed. When this thing really starts getting going, there will be like a 20% gap between what they’ll pay you for your cash, and what truly you are losing every year. Now you do that not just one year, but you do that multiple years in a row, and that’s gonna create a big difference, right? It’s compounding. It’s just like compounding interests, right? It’s the same story. Inflation, when it compounds, can make a big difference. And you know, ultimately, like I said in the beginning, and I think it was where we had to move, is that the dollar has to be slashed by like 60, 70%, right? So, how many years of a 10% gap like we’re currently in do we need to get to there? Is that 5, 10 years? It’s probably going to get worse than it is now. So, you know, we’re talking 20% gap between what the banks’ll actually pay, and what the real inflation rate is. And the whole time, they’ll keep telling you, they’re basically—what is the word they use for the inflation index?

JASON HARTMAN: Well, the CPI, yeah.

JAMES ANDERSON: CPI, exactly. But what Mike Maloney calls it is the CPLie.

JASON HARTMAN: That’s a great name. The CPLie. Let’s call it the CPL—the CPLie. Yeah. I love how they even dare to quote core inflation, the core rate, where they take out food and energy. As if any of us could survive without food and energy, right?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, no, it’s amazing that they still—I don’t know. Where do they get off even saying that that makes any sense? And people actually listen to it. Or even reporting it. They shouldn’t even report the thing. It’s such a sham.

JASON HARTMAN: Well, I say that the next time you buy anything, just tell the vendor that you’re buying it from—that you want to pay the core rate. Next time you’re at the grocery store or the gas station, see if you can pay the core rate, rather than the real inflation rate.

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, the price tag—

JASON HARTMAN: Very good point.

JAMES ANDERSON: —use the core rate, please.

JASON HARTMAN: Exactly. You spent a couple of years in Latin America, where you really witnessed first hand the dramatic effects of what happened in Argentina about 9 years ago, 10 years ago. And Argentina—it’s interesting when you look at Argentina, because 100 years ago, Argentina was sort of slated to be like the world’s leading economy, possibly. Rich in resources, but they just—it’s almost as if corruption in Central and South America is just—it’s kind of just part of the personality, you know?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, it certainly has been. It’s part and parcel. Everybody’s used to it.

JASON HARTMAN: Yeah, it’s really interesting. I mean, Argentina has just been the poster child for financial chaos. What did you see when you were over there?

JAMES ANDERSON: Well, I went down there in 2003, 2004. I was down there for almost a year. And so, Argentina—they’ve had numerous bouts of inflation, right? Late 1980s they had a hyperinflation there. Then throughout the 90s, in the early 90s, they basically pegged their peso with the US dollar one to one. And that lasted for like 7 or 8 years, where they just kept it one to one, and it worked out fine. But all the while they were basically just taking on more and more debt as a government. So people were living great. You know, they were traveling abroad, their pesos were buying them tons of stuff, and you gotta remember too in the late 90s, a lot of people in Argentina, they’re like 2nd, 3rd generation European.

So they’re going over the Europe, buying up cheap Euros with their pesos, because they’re just as powerful as dollars, and you remember in the late 90s, our dollars could buy a lot of Euros, right? So they lived a great time in the 90s. There was a great bubble of surplus there. But when I went down there, that was a year or two after the crisis. The crisis happened the beginning of 2001, early 2002, where basically they had to break the peg, they had to come clean with how bad the debt was. All the insiders in that country pretty much moved all their capital outside the system. They moved it offshore, and just parked their funds in dollars or in Euros. So they basically, all the insiders basically tripled, quadrupled their money, because after they unpegged the peso to the dollar, it went from one to one to about four to one, then kind of shook back to three to one. So, basically, all the pensioners, and all the people who had their dollars or pesos in the bank, even the people with dollars in the bank, the government made them switch it to pesos, and then devalued.

So even those people got screwed over. So everyone pretty much that wasn’t in the know got their savings thirded or quartered, and the remainder of the people who didn’t, who were inside, quadrupled, four-folded their money. So it was definitely a sad thing, and people were angry as hell, right? You had people running around the streets, the banks were closed for about a month or so, things weren’t working that well, ATMs weren’t working that well, people got very—it got very violent there, people were killed in the streets, I think something like 30 people died, and then afterward I think there was actually some starvation that occurred in rural parts of the area in the country. So, for me, I got there—I wasn’t there during the mess, but I came to see the aftereffects in 2003. So it was about a year, year and a half afterward.

So when I was speaking to people down there about their experience, their first hand experience, you know, what would come out would be two things. It was basically, anger would come out, and come right across, of what the government had done to them, and then secondly it was disillusionment, with the current state of affairs of their country, and the future potential of what would happen. You almost get this sense of hopelessness. Like, it doesn’t matter. Even if things get better for a little while, they’ll do it again. They just—that’s all that happens, right? So, it was very sad to see, and probably the worst part of it all is just a combination of, you see old folks having to get back in the subway, having to go back to work. Those people should be retired. They worked their entire lives, and then a bunch of greedy people went off and fixed the game, and stole their money, and now they have to go back to work. Where’s the justice in that? And then secondly, you have kids in the street. You have little kids all around the street having to pick up garbage at night so families can eat. You have little kids picking up literally Styrofoam in the streets.

That kind of stuff—when you start seeing that, it’s just very sad, you know, to know there’s some people out there who have no qualms to take advantage of people to where they have to live like that. So, it was just an eye-opener to know that evil exists, and it’s out there, and it will act that way, it will treat people that way, and that you have to guard against it. You have to look out for it. And coming back here and living in the United States and seeing what’s happened—when I started getting exposed with Ron Paul in 2007 and 2008—and you know, I had a little bit of experience with Austrian economics in college. Learning about the fiat currency systems, and the Federal Reserve, and just kind of how this is all a bunch of hocus pocus—basically, everything’s set up for the bankers to take advantage, right? So, for me to see it happening here in slow motion, it’s very difficult to take. So, I guess that’s why I’m standing where I am, trying to do as much as I can to get people to take some form of action.

JASON HARTMAN: Yeah, so, in terms of protecting oneself, it just astounds me virtually every day how people, James, they just—they don’t want to hear it, they’re not taking it seriously, they don’t understand the urgency. And I think precious metals is a good way to save money. It’s certainly a lot better than paper and ink with pictures of dead presidents on it. But people—I don’t know! They—it’s kind of amazing, and you and I and the people listening to the show—we get it. We know what’s coming. We know what has to come. We know what has to happen here. There isn’t a question of, will it happen or not. We know it will happen. It will surely come to pass. Now, exactly when, none of us can really say. But we know what will happen here. People will lose their standard of living, and it may be extremely ugly. It may be just uncomfortable. It will vary, depending on how people have positioned themselves for the coming situation with inflation and so forth. But doesn’t it amaze you how some people, I’m sure you talk to in your practice, just kind of don’t get it?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah. That’s a point that I always—it’s hard, right? So, about a month ago, right, I was out on Santa Monica Pier. Or actually, on Third Street Promenade; we were doing a little—it was a buy local event, so GoldSilver.com, we had our little display out there, and we had public—and this is more or less your common person who likes to go to the mall, right? You kind of get the sense of the public, you get this attitude, like a know-it-all attitude. Like, I know it all, and then you ask them certain questions, like, what do you think this gold coin’s worth. And you ask hundreds of people, and maybe three or four people would know within a hundred dollars what gold spot was. And nobody knew what silver spot was, right? So you had this attitude of these folks thing that they know it all, but really, the TV is what they know. That’s it. They don’t read books, they don’t know history, they’re just made to be taken advantage of. It’s pretty sad. The combination too though, you gotta remember, there’s a lot of people out there who are in debt, who whenever the subject of money is brought up, bells go off in their head; they think, oh, no, money—they just start to feel like a loser. Anytime the idea of money comes up, right? So, that’s one thing to also keep in mind. There’s just a lot of people who don’t have any money. That is the situation we’re in. There’s a lot of people in debt. But yeah, the amount of people out there who don’t know the fundamental reasons of why—of what’s going on? I think a lot of it is the attitude. They just don’t want to hear it, or they don’t want to learn. And it is frustrating. It certainly is.

JASON HARTMAN: Back to Argentina for a moment, James. Your first hand experience there is really interesting. One of the things that people are talking about, and I think is rather likely as the government becomes progressively more and more insolvent—the numbers on the way the United States is behaving financially are beyond appalling. I mean, they are just beyond comprehension! How the interest on the debt is just going to just cremate the future of the country’s balance sheet. You look at, like, 45% of the people in the country now are getting government assistance. 42% are on Food Stamps. Forgive me if my numbers are ever so slightly off. I’m giving general numbers. But these are just quick stats you hear. And you’ve got a position where the balance is almost shifted. When you get to that 51% tipping point—when 51% of the people are getting stuff for free from the government and not paying taxes, then they’re just going to keep voting themselves more perks and goodies and welfare and entitlements.

And boy, when you get in that position, there’s just really no recovery, I think, without severe, severe consequences. And in Argentina, they nationalized the pensions. And I think that likelihood is pretty significant here, where the government would say something to the effect of, maybe they’d engineer a stock market crash. And there’s the plunge protection team pulling the strings behind the markets. And they might engineer a crash and come along and say you know, for the public good, we need to put the pensions—put everyone’s IRA under the control of the government. Just like Social Security. And that’s the Argentinean plan. And they’ll just go and usurp people’s retirement accounts, and say look, the government is going to take care of you, and we’re going to guarantee you a check. And gosh, the government’s resume is so wonderful on having managed Social Security so well, and everything else. Everything the government touches turns to disaster, basically. Do you think there’s a possibility in the US of a movement toward nationalizing the pensions?

JAMES ANDERSON: There is. It is a threat. It’s something that’s out there that could possibly occur. Right? I mean, the government now has gone so crazy, so rogue. They can confiscate your life if they so choose. If Obama wants you dead, he can have you dead. If you move to another country, it doesn’t matter. They can just knock you off. That’s legal, they claim. They have that right. They can spy on you. So, there’s all types of things that could possibly happen. So you have to plan, I suppose for a bunch of different scenarios. I wouldn’t put all my eggs in one basket ever. Because you know, potentially, the outcomes of this, there’s a myriad of factors, a myriad of things that could happen, right? So, you know, if I was somebody who had everything in my IRA, you know, I might be a little bit afraid, because potentially there is that threat. It’s happened before in history, it certainly could happen again.

JASON HARTMAN: Something everybody needs to be watchful for. I tell you, it really dis-incentivizes me to be putting money into my IRA, me pension plan, my SEP, because I’m just worried that that’s just too easily nationalized, and you know, everything has to be an arm’s length transaction, so you can’t hold anything physical in that plan. It all has to be arm’s length away from you. Which mean, you’re not really in control of it. So, that concerns me. And you know, that’s one of the things I like about having some of my savings in physical metals. And I should say, just for the listeners’ sake, and I don’t know what your thoughts are on this, but my grandfather was a bit of a coin collector, and he suffered a home invasion robbery. Fortunately he wasn’t hurt in any real way, but guys just came to the door with guns, and the dog came at them, and they just took the butt of the pistol and hit the dog on the head and conked the dog out, and tied up my grandfather and grandmother, and took all the coins. And I don’t think it’s very safe to keep this stuff in anyone’s house. I had Howard Ruff on the show, and he likes this midnight gardener product, where you hide it in the ground, and some people say the safe deposit box, or the self-storage unit or whatever. What are your thoughts on storage?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, that’s a great question. GoldSilver.com, we give our customers a lot of options, because the obvious, you don’t want to put everything in one basket. It goes back to that. Personally, I think it does make a little sense, I think, to have some in your hand, right? Just in case of like, a lightning bolt currency crisis, where something happens and all of a sudden, you know, the banks close for a little while. It would be nice to have a little bit of money at your fingertips. As well as some cash. It makes sense to have a little bit of cash at home, that way you don’t have to go chasing around trying to find an ATM that works. That would be the first thing, just to have some at home. If you’re going for a large investment in gold and silver, like I said, diversifying where your locations are—it makes a lot of sense. We offer our customers third party vault storage. It’s the safest method of storing precious metals in the industry. It’s called segregated vault storage, and it’s with third party companies.

We work with Brinks in Salt Lake City, and Brinks in Hong Kong, and [unintelligible] in Miami. We’re bringing on a Canadian one I think very shortly, as well. And these are places that—and I’ve been to every one of these facilities. You know, you have your metal shipped there, they’re stored there, you get certificates, signed by the third party manager, whether it’s Brinks of [unintelligible]. It is fully insured by [unintelligible], Marsh & McLennan, a few different other insurance companies sometimes. But they’re always insured, and it’s just a really safe and convenient way to have a good chunk of holdings outside of the banking structure. And it’s only one call away to liquidate it, or you can always have it shipped somewhere. For instance, if you have your precious metals sitting in Brinks in Salt Lake City, and let’s just say it gets very bad a couple years from now and you decide, I have some relatives in New Zealand, or Australia, or England, I want to go live with them. You can have those precious metals shipped out of the United States, currently. And you know, we deliver to over 40 countries. So having precious metals in segregated vault storage facilities with us, you can move it across borders if you want to. So it gives you some flexibility.

It gives you a little bit more sovereignty than just having it all in your closet, right? So that’s one thing that we really give, GoldSilver.com, we give our customers a little bit more of an advantage in that regard. For myself, I kind of divvy—I would majority hold in a segregated vault storage. I do hold some at home. And you know, as we go forward, you know, it gets a little bit worrisome. Somebody kind of memorizes my face, you know, or what not, and knows me—

JASON HARTMAN: Yeah, and I was wondering, could you give the listeners your address, please? Just kidding—

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, right.

JASON HARTMAN: [LAUGHTER].

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, it won’t be long. It’ll probably be—I’ll be shipping that stuff off to Miami, probably, very shortly.

JASON HARTMAN: Yeah, I hope you will after saying that on the air. Let me take a brief pause; we’ll be back in just a minute.

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JASON HARTMAN: But you know, I want to just—and feel free to go on with what you were saying in a moment. But before you move on too much, James, I just want to play devil’s advocate with you on this storage stuff.

JAMES ANDERSON: Sure.

JASON HARTMAN: Because I had Peter Schiff on the show quite a while back. And he’s selling these Perth mint gold things, keep your gold in the mint in Perth and you get a certificate. Isn’t that just like having a stupid stock certificate, or a dollar, which is fiat money? You got a piece of paper! I think the whole point of having metals is to have physical metals. Otherwise, why not just buy an ETF for a COMEX future or something like that?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, there’s two—well, there’s a bunch of things. First off, the metals are yours. They’re segregated—they’re fully in your title and name. They’re not GoldSilver.com’s metals. So there’s nothing in the contract that would actually give us any type of leverage on your metal. For instance, my account at [unintelligible] at Miami—it’s A to B. I call the manager at Miami and I have a personal relationship with him, and it’s that simple. So, there’s a lot of situations where it’s A to B. Those are my metals, I ship them off, they’re segregated fully, I can go visit them if I want, I can have them shipped to anywhere—

JASON HARTMAN: There are different types of metals investors. There’s the person who’s the sort of—I’ll call them the survivalist. The person who thinks imminent disastrous collapse. Well, for that person, and that thinking, if that scenario happens, I don’t think the segregated vaults or any kind of certificate’s gonna do anybody any good. Because everybody’s gonna lock everything up and take it all for themselves. I don’t know, maybe that’s just my crazy paranoia. And then there’s the person who’s just sort of the money investor who wants to make a good return on their money, and doesn’t want to see their dollar debased, and they’d much rather save money in metals, which I couldn’t agree more—it’s much better than dollars. And that’s kind of a different person. But in the event of real economic collapse, you want to have it on hand, right?

JAMES ANDERSON: I think so. I mean, the idea that—you want to have it in hand, of course. Because who are you going to trust? Everywhere you go—it doesn’t matter where you go, where you head, Jason. There’s always risk. There’s risk in breathing the next breath, okay? That’s life. So you can live in fear, and go to the bottom with some paranoia, and think of, well, then this would happen, and I’d lose it all, or what have you. You can really go to the far length with fear, and then you really have no chance. Basically, if you have it in your hand, great. Somebody can rob you. If you have it in a segregated vault storage facility, okay, great, somebody ends up taking it from there and confiscating your wealth, or something. There’s no end to it, right? So what I propose is that you wouldn’t put it all in one place, right? Because the chance of it happening in all these different places—that’s pretty slim. And the idea that the rule of law would just completely fall caput, and people are running around taking things from one another—that’s a little bit far-fetched, I think. I think when people start talking about there being a break up of society, and all of a sudden the rule of law is just completely out the window and you’re gonna have to have your beans and your guns and go to the hills—no. No, that’s—I don’t think that’s gonna happen. But are they gonna debase the dollar at 60 or 70% in the coming years? Yeah, I do, I think that’s where we’re headed.

JASON HARTMAN: So, maybe let me ask you another question about what I think is a possible Ponzi scheme. And that is the COMEX. People that are buying certificate type metals on the COMEX—they make it very hard to actually take delivery. And that’s what, like I’ve expressed already, I like about a dealership like yours, where you can take delivery of stuff. Do you have any thoughts on the COMEX? There are those that think that’s a Ponzi scheme.

JAMES ANDERSON: Oh yeah.

JASON HARTMAN: That maybe the metal isn’t really there to back up all the stuff they’re selling. Maybe the metal behind all these ETFs and these other various funds is not—it doesn’t really exist, they’re just selling you paper.

JAMES ANDERSON: Well, that spot price that you see every day—you know, like we discussed earlier, I think we closed today around 4775—that’s what the spot price is, right? That’s the spot price on the COMEX exchange. And for those of you out there who don’t know, that’s where the spot price is actually made out of, it’s these different exchanges around the world. And there’s been people who have been out there, and who have admitted the fact that the COMEX exchanges, and the London Bullion Exchanges—Jeffrey Christian of CPM Group was on a video on YouTube where he was—I believe he was giving testimony to some folks in government, and he admitted the fact that the COMEX and London Bullion Exchange, they are leveraged anywhere from 100 to 1 to 40 to 1, somewhere in that area. And he literally said 100 to 1. I mean, think about that.

JASON HARTMAN: Unbelievable.

JAMES ANDERSON: That is some real fractional reserve banking right there, right?

JASON HARTMAN: And that’s supposed to be the real deal. That’s supposed to really be money!

JAMES ANDERSON: Right, exactly.

JASON HARTMAN: Unlike the banks. Yeah.

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah. So, what we have here is basically a big game of musical chairs. And the music’s still playing, and the COMEX market, it’s still playing, and the London Bullion Exchange, but when the people come rushing en masse to actually—to come and collect their metals that they think is there, there’s only going to be so many shares. So, the truth of this is, we saw it in 2008, and we’ll see it again. The price in 2008 for silver and gold, when the banks were exploding—there was a lot of deflationary pressure out there, so, gold went down in price, so did silver. The spot price in silver went down to like nine dollars, right? But that was just the spot price. To actually to get physical in your hands, you had to pay a serious premium. Because the market—there’s just not that much supply, you know? The industry—it’s just not set up to serve however many hundreds of millions of people were out there looking to buy gold and silver at that time. Basically, there’s only so much supply. So, the spot price was at nine dollars in 2008, whereas to get physical silver in your hand, you had to pay like 14, 15, 16, 17 dollars. I mean, Mike Maloney—I was sitting there on the phone, and he said to pull up eBay. We looked at eBay, and there were silver eagles being sold on eBay in 2008 for 20, 25, 30, 35 dollars, right?

JASON HARTMAN: You know, I’ve looked that up myself, and I think, people would be crazy to buy this stuff on eBay. It’s usually a terrible deal, huh?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, it depends right? It does. Especially when the market’s climbing, yes, you’ll pay through the eye on eBay. When the market’s going down, the interest isn’t—it’s not fair, if the price is going down. Only the intelligent people come in and buy when the price is going down. When the price is running up and running up and running up, you have the crowds come in. People who aren’t even doing their due diligence, people who just Googled gold and silver and now they’re ready to buy. They don’t even know [unintelligible] why they’re buying. So there’s a different crowd, right? When the price is escalating, they’ll run to eBay and they’ll pay through the eye. You know, they don’t care. They just gotta have it. It’s the next hot thing. So back to the point though, the point of this whole thing is that you will see in the future a day when the spot price will completely diverge from the physical price. I mean, it’s happening now, right, we talked about silver eagles—they’re sitting at $54, $55 when you’re buying them physically.

JASON HARTMAN: Yeah, and you know what I want to say to that—ouch! That premium’s high! That’s a lot.

JAMES ANDERSON: It certainly is. But the other thing is that you know, as this goes forward, and even now, when you go to sell those silver eagles, you’re fetching more than the spot price. And that’ll be the eventual where we’re going to head. You’re going to see a gold spot price that might say $2500, and you’ll be buying gold at $3000 and selling it at $2750 or something like that. There will be a serious divergence between the paper and physical. Especially in silver, because there’s only so much silver to go around. And I’m sure you’re aware of this, but there’s less silver for investors out there than there is gold, in the world today. So, the silver market’s very small. It doesn’t take much to move it. When people go rushing into silver, it vanishes. And the premiums go up for the physical. So, in the future we do expect divergence between the physical and the paper market, to where, you know, the physical—at this point, the physical market is really ruling the day. But it’ll become more and more obvious as we go forward.

JASON HARTMAN: We gotta wrap up here, but one thing I’d like to ask you about, James, is—and honestly, I haven’t found this to be very favorable for the investor. So, you alluded to it a moment ago, so I just want to ask you about it. Maybe we can wrap up with this topic. But, I know that it’s easy for an owner of gold or silver to sell the metal. But under what method and what terms? Because I checked around on that a few times, and I had to ship my gold or silver back to a place—so, you know, I’m concerned about shipping, first of all. But you can insure that. And then, how do I know that when they open the package they’re going to count the same number of coins that I counted when I sent it, and they say, well, this is all done with cameras and so forth. And then after that, they wanted a pretty big spread between what that day I had to buy it for, and from what that day they would buy it for. It’s one thing to sort of quote the price, but it’s another thing to actually have a liquid market where you can sell it. I mean, the nice thing about these stupid dollars is, at least you can trade them. At least for now. And you don’t—well, you don’t think you pay a premium when you buy and sell them, but I guess you really do; it’s called inflation and taxation. But, what do you say about the ease of selling them, and how—what’s the spread? What do people really lose when they buy and sell gold and silver bullion?

JAMES ANDERSON: Sure. In the physical form, it’s not a type of investment that you want to trade. If you want to be a day trader and play in manipulated markets, you should go for an ETF. But if you want to hold something outside of the financial industry that’s real money, you buy bullion. And depending on how much you’re buying, and what form, will depend on the spread that you’re gonna have to pay. If you’re buying a good amount of gold, you shouldn’t pay—spreads shouldn’t be more than 5% between what you’re actually buying, and then what you can turn around to sell it with. If you’re buying a good amount of gold, that’s all it takes is a 5% move in gold to break even. In silver, it depends on how much you’re buying, right? If you come to a dealer to buy like 20 silver coins, it takes as much time for that dealer to service you as it does for someone else buying 20,000 of them, right? And it’s the same thing—you gotta put it in a box, you gotta put all the stuff through their system, you gotta get in line—I mean, it takes just as much time. So, the spread between the guy who’s buying one tube of silver versus the guy who’s buying cases of them will be a little bit larger. I would imagine for a tube you’re probably talking about 20, 15% spread. Now, anybody who says oh, that’s huge, that’s ridiculous—well, that’s fine. You can look at what happened in the last eight months. Silver’s basically doubled in price. It doesn’t take any time for silver to move 10-15%. You could literally break even before the box even gets to you. And it’s the same thing, if you’re getting a lot of silver, it can be in the single digits. It can get down to 5% if you’re getting a lot.

JASON HARTMAN: So, just to clarify. If someone buys a box of 500 silver coins, and say they paid, just for round numbers, say $20,000 for that. And the spot price of those coins is—what is the spot price? Maybe $18,000? Is that about right?

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, that’d be fair.

JASON HARTMAN: And say it didn’t go up in value. Say it just maintained. And then six months later, or a year later—and you know, the prices were the same—you were still selling the same box for 20 grand, and the spot price was still $18,000. So you guys are making two grand on that deal. Or not really, because you pay the mint a premium too, that you get it from. But whatever, the investor thinks it’s a $2000 premium. That’s what they see. And then they sell it to you, and how much are you gonna pay them for that $20,000 box?

JAMES ANDERSON: Well, on our website at GoldSilver.com, you see both prices. It’s printed there 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Those prices are live. So, you come to our website, you see what it costs to buy, and you see what we’re paying for it at that moment. And that doesn’t end. We’ll always be buying and selling gold and silver, no matter where we are. Even at the tip of a market. It goes that way. So, it’s published, and it’s right there on the website. For a silver eagle like for instance that example, where you said $20,000 to buy the case, the spot price as being 18—you know, you’re talking in terms of for that case, it’d probably be like $18,500 that we’d be buying it back? We’d definitely be buying it back over spot.

When it comes to all the products in bullion in the United States, the one that gets the biggest premium is the silver eagle, both ways. Not just for the buyer. And I know people don’t like to pay the premium or what not; that’s fine, but if you go the wrong route, and you buy the wrong product, you’ll be regretting it the whole way through. If you get something that has a weak hallmark that nobody respects, and you come to the table with that, you’re gonna get scoffed at and get a weak bid. For me, it just makes sense to go with products that everyone knows and respects, and that you have various options to sell it. You don’t have to sell it to the same dealer you bought it from. You always want to have multiple exit strategies. You have to have multiple ideas of how you would exit this market, and do it in a nice calm manner. But sometimes, you never know; it could be so busy at the end of this market that some dealers you can’t even get through the phone, right? So what would you do in that case? Who are you going to sell to? And if you have a product that only they sell, then is anyone else gonna buy it back? So there are some worries that can happen.

JASON HARTMAN: But I just want to clarify something there.

JAMES ANDERSON: Sure.

JASON HARTMAN: So it sounds like the—I’m gonna call them the closing costs, on that deal, of that silver box that we just traded, right? Are about 7½%, then?

JAMES ANDERSON: When you say closing costs, you mean—

JASON HARTMAN: The costs to trade it back and forth.

JAMES ANDERSON: Yeah, exactly. If you did it in the same day, that would be about right.

JASON HARTMAN: Or a year later, and say the price of silver didn’t change. So, I’m paying basically 7½%; those are my closing costs. My trading costs.

JAMES ANDERSON: Yep. That would be—

JASON HARTMAN: Not including any storage fees, for storing it, which is probably minimal.

JAMES ANDERSON: Mhmm.

JASON HARTMAN: Good to know. What were you going to say, and let’s wrap up. Your final thoughts. I just wanted to clarify that for the listeners, because I didn’t know if it was clear.

JAMES ANDERSON: Oh, just a final thought was, having hallmarks that everybody respects. Not just the United States, but around the world, makes a lot of sense. So, if there’s people out there who are really interested in getting a tight premium close to the spot price, you know, just stick with maybe 100 ounce bars that are well know, like Johnson Matthey, that type of thing. Sometimes people want to buy off-brand products that, you know, then you have to go back to that dealer, really, to get a decent bid. Some other dealers might not even want it. So don’t pigeonhole yourself in a place like that. You want to make sure you have products that are well known and respected so you have multiple options.

JASON HARTMAN: Good point. Alright! Well, James Anderson, thank you so much. The website: GoldSilver.com. I appreciate your education. You got some other great educational pieces on your website, and these are ominous times we’re living in, and I think people have really gotta be paying attention. All of your listeners, please tell everyone you know. Run around town and say, inflation is coming! Inflation is coming! Because it is, and we can’t tell you exactly when, but all the signs are there, and you better prepare yourself, because you’re gonna be sorry if you don’t. So, James, we appreciate the insights today. Thank you so much.

JAMES ANDERSON: Well thank you. Tip of the cap for what you’re doing. And it’s very nice to be on your show.

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ANNOUNCER: This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. All rights reserved. For distribution or publication rights and media interviews, please visit www.HartmanMedia.com, or email [email protected]. Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, or business professional for any individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own, and the host is acting on behalf of Empowered Investor, LLC. exclusively.

Transcribed by David

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